MondoArt
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Mixing with headphones
I seem to recall something about there being a plug-in or FX chain or something in SPLAT that was for enhancing headphone monitoring by adding virtual room ambiance, etc. I can't find anything in SPLAT. Am I just making this up or was there something included? Part of Craig Anderton's stuff sounds familiar, but I'm not sure.
Neel Songwriter/Producer neelmodi.com Sonar Platinum | Intel i5 | Windows 10 Home | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 | Akai Advance 61 | NI Komplete 10
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bapu
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/08 17:50:40
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Ya Craig Anderton did that. Can't find it right now.
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bz2838
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/08 18:26:02
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annifarkle
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/08 19:08:47
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☄ Helpfulby MondoArt 2016/09/08 20:01:54
Boredom is the enemy, So says the child in me. AGF  Sonar Platinum SubscriptionWin 10 Pro AMD A10-7850 Radeon R7, 12 Computer Cores 4C+8G 3.70 GHzRam- 16 GB64-bit OS x64 processor
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MondoArt
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/08 19:43:22
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Thanks, anniefarkle! Just what I was looking for. I got the email from Waves yesterday, and checked it out. Didn't see the need for the fancy bluetooth headphone attachment, and my desktop has no camera or bluetooth anyway. Then I recalled that SPLAT came with something similar.
Just tried it out, and it's interesting to hear the A/B. Next mix, I might mix through it just to compare.
Neel
Neel Songwriter/Producer neelmodi.com Sonar Platinum | Intel i5 | Windows 10 Home | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 | Akai Advance 61 | NI Komplete 10
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papercut
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/08 20:13:52
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What a good idea!
This was off my radar, something I never even would have thought to look for.
Thanks, all!
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annifarkle
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/08 20:23:43
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MondoArt
Thanks, anniefarkle! Just what I was looking for. I got the email from Waves yesterday, and checked it out. Didn't see the need for the fancy bluetooth headphone attachment, and my desktop has no camera or bluetooth anyway. Then I recalled that SPLAT came with something similar.
Just tried it out, and it's interesting to hear the A/B. Next mix, I might mix through it just to compare.
Neel
You're very welcome. I know how frustrating it can be to try and figure out where stuff is. :-)
Boredom is the enemy, So says the child in me. AGF Sonar Platinum SubscriptionWin 10 Pro AMD A10-7850 Radeon R7, 12 Computer Cores 4C+8G 3.70 GHzRam- 16 GB64-bit OS x64 processor
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The Grim 
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/08 20:45:27
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MondoArt
Thanks, anniefarkle! Just what I was looking for. I got the email from Waves yesterday, and checked it out. Didn't see the need for the fancy bluetooth headphone attachment, and my desktop has no camera or bluetooth anyway. Then I recalled that SPLAT came with something similar.
Just tried it out, and it's interesting to hear the A/B. Next mix, I might mix through it just to compare.
Neel
no need to use the the head tracking or even own that part of nx, you can just buy and use the nx plug, works really good, imo far better than the thing included in sonar ymmv. there are also other alternatives, a very cheap yet effective one is toneboosters tb isone 19.95 euro's http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/ then there are things like sonarworks reference 3 plugin, costs a bit more, but if your headphones are supported may be worth it to you. you can also have them calibrate your headphones for you, or purchase a new set of pre calibrated headphones. http://store.sonarworks.c...nce-3-headphone-plugin http://store.sonarworks.com/
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/08 20:49:31
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I do not have Monitorizer in my Anderton Collection.
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noynekker
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/09 01:34:04
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pinguinotuerto
I do not have Monitorizer in my Anderton Collection.
I see it in my Anderton Collection, . . . it is inserted into ProChannel FX Rack Menu . . . as - - -> FX Chain Preset\Anderton Collection\Processors\Monitorizer.fxc
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/09 02:22:57
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noynekker
pinguinotuerto
I do not have Monitorizer in my Anderton Collection.
I see it in my Anderton Collection, . . . it is inserted into ProChannel FX Rack Menu
. . . as - - -> FX Chain Preset\Anderton Collection\Processors\Monitorizer.fxc
Yes, I see it now. Not only in the Pro Channel, but also in the FX Bin. Thanks Noynekker!
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Boydie
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/09 02:51:09
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I would suggest using a Focusrite VRM Box - it is a fantastic little device
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patm300e
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/09 07:09:16
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 SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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doment500
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/09 19:30:40
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Boydie
I would suggest using a Focusrite VRM Box - it is a fantastic little device
I have been using the VRM for about 4 years now. I really like it. It is no longer in production so you might have to look on auction sites for them.
Pay me or the chicken gets it!
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BRainbow
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/09 20:37:57
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Its mentioned above, buy I'll add my 2 cents for Sonarworks.com - headphone calibration software. They cover many top models. You can also buy individually-calibrated headphones and get a personalized calibration plug-in file. This is what I use and it is great. Just put it in the master bus FX bin after everything else. But don't forget to turn it off when you mixdown/bounce.
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tlw
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/10 11:08:26
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I've been using a Sonarworks "generic" profile with a pair of Sennheisers for a while now. It definitely makes a difference in terms of compensating for the headphone's own frequency irregularities, but it still doesn't overcome some of the problems mixing with headphones produces such as not revealing left/right phasing issues that would be apparent using monitors.
Better than the "raw" headphones though. An alternative to Sonarworks where the manufacturer supplies a frequency plot for the headphones (which unfortunately isn't very common these days) is to create a reversal of that plot in an eq plugin and load that onto the bus that feeds the headphones. Adding something like Waves NX to replicate inter-speaker effects and add some ambience also helps I find. Just don't bother with the head tracking stuff, it's not needed.
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Anderton
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/10 12:50:03
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MondoArt
I seem to recall something about there being a plug-in or FX chain or something in SPLAT that was for enhancing headphone monitoring by adding virtual room ambiance, etc. I can't find anything in SPLAT. Am I just making this up or was there something included? Part of Craig Anderton's stuff sounds familiar, but I'm not sure.
Actually it's not designed to "enhance" headphone monitoring, or compensate for frequency response issues in headphones by calibrating them; it's designed to address imaging. I made the Monitorizer for those people who need to work with headphones due to noise issues, neighbors, sleeping spouses or babies, etc. but don't like the super-wide stereo effect and prefer the experience of listening on monitors. This provides that function. As the description says: The Monitorizer FX Chain is specifically for those who use headphones and want a more “monitor-like” experience. Intended to be used as a send effect, Monitorizer helps eliminate the “super-wide” stereo sound of headphones to approximate an experience that's more like listening on monitors. It emulates the crosstalk that occurs naturally with left and right channels, as well as some room characteristics, to tame the unnatural, “super-wide” headphone sound. Also note the Monitorizer must be used as a send effect. I did another send effect FX Chain, the "Sizzle Bus," and people who didn't read the documentation and tried to use it as an insert effect thought it didn't work.
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konradh
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/10 17:26:16
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I found Craig's response very interesting because it is the extreme stereo image that throws me off with headphones. The headphones I use are actually pretty close to my near fields in terms of EQ.
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vdd
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/10 18:34:30
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Anderton
Actually it's not designed to "enhance" headphone monitoring, or compensate for frequency response issues in headphones by calibrating them; it's designed to address imaging. I made the Monitorizer for those people who need to work with headphones due to noise issues, neighbors, sleeping spouses or babies, etc. but don't like the super-wide stereo effect and prefer the experience of listening on monitors. This provides that function.
I am using the Monitorizer since a couple of weeks, after I discovered it again. It will not make bad headphones sounds great, but it is absolutly fantastic for longer headphone-sessions. It isn't as exhausting as listening to a raw headphone. But most important: If you mix on headphones, everything in the mix will go towards the center, because RCL sounds nasty in dual-mono. And that it is: a raw headphone mix is not stereo, it is dual mono. The Monitorizer fixes that. I think that it is great and if you think, there must be a better solution - you are right. Take a look to the SPL Phonitor, as example, because a plug-in will neither fix a bad headphone amp nor bad headphones. BTW: I asked that a couple of weeks before: Is anybody using the Monitorizer while mixing? Or am I a lonely wolf?
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MondoArt
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/10 18:37:08
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Hmmm, this is interesting. For me, panning problems is the least of my problems. I do a "quick mix" just with pan and volume first, on my monitors. Then I switch to mono for EQ, compression and other effects. My problem is that my monitors (M-Audio 5") have an extraordinary lack of bass response. Basically, I've learned that if the bass is weak on my monitors, it's good.
I usually switch to my computer speakers (Logitech 2.1) to finetune the bass.
And still, the bass (kick and bass guitar) is never nice and tight and clear as professional mixes.
Basically, I want a good way to mix the bass, and thought mixing on headphones might help. I still test on my computer speakers (with and without the subwoofer on) and in my car and on my bluetooth speaker and laptop too, but can never get the bass sounding really tight and clear.
Neel Songwriter/Producer neelmodi.com Sonar Platinum | Intel i5 | Windows 10 Home | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 | Akai Advance 61 | NI Komplete 10
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vdd
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/10 18:42:36
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MondoArt
And still, the bass (kick and bass guitar) is never nice and tight and clear as professional mixes.
Basically, I want a good way to mix the bass, and thought mixing on headphones might help. I still test on my computer speakers (with and without the subwoofer on) and in my car and on my bluetooth speaker and laptop too, but can never get the bass sounding really tight and clear.
From my point of view the challenge is the right balance between kick and bass. There is a nice way how to deal with that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECRx4WF3pccThis guy explains a way good to realize way to deal with the right amount of bass (and in other videos, how to shape the bass freq). Hope this will help you a little bit. Works great with the stock plug-ins...
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MondoArt
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/10 18:57:03
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Thanks, vdd. I've seen that video before, and in fact, I've learned a ton from Graham. Except that this technique as he described it didn't work for me. Granted, I used a free RMS meter, not the one he used, but the result when I did it was the bass guitar was WAAAY too quiet, it didn't make any sense. I also asked him on his blog post if he does this after EQ and compression or before, but I didn't see an answer.
I find that even if I hi-pass up to 60 or 80 Hz on bass and kick, it still can sound muddy on systems with a subwoofer, and I can't seem to get it sounding tight as it does on headphones or my monitors.
Neel Songwriter/Producer neelmodi.com Sonar Platinum | Intel i5 | Windows 10 Home | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 | Akai Advance 61 | NI Komplete 10
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vdd
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/10 19:20:29
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Hmm, I use the tape emulation within PLAT to get the RMS meter and it works well.
Nevertheless, are you sure that the source of the muddy sound is the kick/bass track? I use a lot of high-pass filters (basicly at every track) to remove bass elements. All this bass sums up and can do a lot of harm to the mix. And because these are very low frequencies, you cannot hear them directly. At the end, it is like an additive synth: All the waves add up to higher volume/frequencies (but probably lower than 50hz).
I use the HPF at 30Hz with 48db nearly at every track which is not a bass/kick track by definition...
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MondoArt
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Re: Mixing with headphones
2016/09/10 19:25:33
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Yes, I hi-pass everything else, sometimes up to 250 Hz, depending. Thanks for the tape sim tip, I think I'll try that.
Neel Songwriter/Producer neelmodi.com Sonar Platinum | Intel i5 | Windows 10 Home | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 | Akai Advance 61 | NI Komplete 10
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