Helpful ReplyMixer confusion...

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djwayne
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2016/09/12 21:15:32 (permalink)

Mixer confusion...

Okay, I made a stereo recording using two mono tracks. I go to mix it down in the mixer and I have 8 level meters I have to deal with before it leaves Sonar. I tried adjusting the meters and another meter moves. I try deleting busses and my tracks disappear. I swear it's like playing a shell game. Every level must be set right or else you end up with a very quiet audio export. I'm really not liking the mixer. Too many level controls for a simple two track recording.
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John
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/12 21:21:14 (permalink)
Well that sounds like its your doing not the mixer's. You have 2 mono tracks out putting to what? 

Best
John
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djwayne
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/12 21:24:31 (permalink)
Well there's master, mains, preview, ProChannel and dual track meters. I counted them, 8 level meters on my screen. I did NOT add any busses, they are all just there on setup. I was able to delete the Preview meters. They are all tied together and must be set right, and when you do set the level, it changes on it's own.
 
post edited by djwayne - 2016/09/12 21:47:09
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djwayne
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/12 21:31:04 (permalink)
Trying to mix in Sonar's mixer is like playing the carnival game "Mole in the Hole". You bop one mole and another pops up...or in this case the meter levels goes down.
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Base 57
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/12 22:28:36 (permalink)
Set the Main at 0 and drag it off the screen. Close the Pro Channels and turn them off. Now all you have is Mono 1, Mono 2 and Master. Don't clip the Master.
 
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djwayne
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/12 22:51:08 (permalink)
Okay thanks, I minimized the Pro Channel screen, deleted the Master, Preview, and Metronome busses. So now all I have showing is track 1, track 2, and the locked main out. This cleans it up nicely for me, as all I want is a simple mixer. The level meters in the Pro Channel box still confuse me as they don't seem to respond as I would expect. I can close up the box and not deal with them. All these level meters were confusing me and I was getting very low volume exported mixes. Now that they are all gone, I shouldn't have a problem anymore. Thanks again.
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/12 23:03:29 (permalink)
You can take the console emulator out of the pro channel or just ignore the meters in it until you get used to them. They can be confusing.
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tenfoot
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/12 23:09:05 (permalink)
I have never found the level metres in Sonar something I "have to deal with". They are fairly logical IMHO. You have deleted all of your busses, and as a result you now have nowhere to apply any kind of master whole mix fx.
 
I suggest a little time with the user guide might clear things up:)

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djwayne
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/12 23:12:47 (permalink)
What was happening was some of the level meters were adjusted to really low level and interfering with my ability to export mixes at a decent level. I didn't realize they all had to be set right to get a decent exported file. Eliminating them gets rid of this headache. I couldn't figure out why my mixes were so quiet. Now I've gotten it straightened out.
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djwayne
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/12 23:16:06 (permalink)
tenfoot
I have never found the level metres in Sonar something I "have to deal with". They are fairly logical IMHO. You have deleted all of your busses, and as a result you now have nowhere to apply any kind of master whole mix fx.
 
I suggest a little time with the user guide might clear things up:)


 Adding effects to the whole mix, wasn't what I wanted to do, I just wanted straight recordings. The main concern was the low level of the exported files.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 00:19:35 (permalink)
Are using a compressor on the way in, or after, or is it totally clean. If it's totally clean, it will sound quieter than produced recordings.

 
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Cactus Music
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 00:41:15 (permalink)
Sonar's ( and all DAW's I've used) mixer looks and works about the same as any real mixing desk. I can understand you being overwelmed by a lot of extra controls but really, they are there for good reason. Plus, you are the one who puts them there. 
If I start a new project it's like blank. I have to add any tracks or Busses.  The only channel strips in the mixer are the Audio interface outputs which are by default at unity and can be ignored. I then have to add the Master buss and any effect busses. I can save this as a template for future use. The extra master outs for your audio interface are there to let you know your signal is being sent out to say, 1/2 or 3/4 etc. You certainly need to make sure they are not clipping, but in a properly set up signal chain they should show the same level as your Master Buss. I minimize them and push them out of view. 
 
Which by the way, the Master buss is super important. Sure you can adjust your main output without it but that's certainly not the way 99% of us roll. 
If your mixes are whimpy it's time to bone up on signal chain and how the sound travels from point a to point b. 1,000 of tutorials on the subject, start reading and watching videos. 
 
 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2016/09/13 01:07:37

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#12
djwayne
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 00:51:56 (permalink)
I didn't put all those controls there, They are there by default. I don't need all those bells and whistles, I just want a basic mixer, for two tracks and a main out. I don't need a preview, metronome buss, master buss, or Pro Channel busses.
 
My mixes were whimpy because I didn't see all the level settings of all the meters in the audio chain. Once I did, and adjusted it, the levels came up to normal. Seriously, how many level meters do you have to have ?? Don't believe me ?? Try importing a two track mix, then go into your default mixer and you'll see 9 different level meters, it's ridiculous.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 00:52:19 (permalink)
If you wanted to start completely clean. Ignore the start screen. Choose File>New. Then from the template pop up box,
-- blank project --
Completely empty, you don't even have to name it.

 
#14
djwayne
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 01:07:52 (permalink)
Interesting.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 04:49:56 (permalink)
It's really quite simple:
 
All Tracks > Master buss > Interface/Main Outs
 
Make sure your Master Buss and Main Outs are set to 0dB

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djwayne
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 10:13:22 (permalink)
You forgot, Preview buss, Pro Channel buss, Metronome buss, Master buss...
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Cactus Music
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 10:25:51 (permalink)
Your using a template that you don't like. Don't use it. Make your own like I said.
And what Kamikaze said is how you start. I don't use the start screen either. 
 
Once you make some custom tracks you save them as Track Templates. 
So it's fast to populate a blank project with your own stuff the way YOU want it. 
 
 

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 11:04:15 (permalink)
djwayne
You forgot, Preview buss, Pro Channel buss, Metronome buss, Master buss...


I didn't forget them because *I* don't use them 
 
As said above, if you don't want them in your default template, CHANGE the template
 
OR, start all your projects from a BLANK template and add whatever busses you want.

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djwayne
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 12:42:50 (permalink)
I don't use them either but they are part of the mixer default set up, and they must be dealt with. Either delete them or start fresh. Either way a time consuming road block.
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subtlearts
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 13:08:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Klaus 2016/09/13 15:14:15
No, you don't have to "deal with" them. You can safely ignore them. If you leave them at unity (0) gain they will do nothing. The preview bus is where sounds previewed in the browser are routed, so it won't have any effect on anything if you're not doing that. Same for the metronome bus. You can hide or delete them if you don't use them, and you can save a version of the blank template without them - or use one of the more basic ones provided - to start your projects from, if you never want to see them again. But they do in fact make sense and serve a purpose for some users, and you might find your use of Sonar gets more complex over time, so you might find yourself wanting or needing such functionality yourself at some point. Railing against it being there without, apparently, taking the time to understand it at all seems kind of self-defeating.  
 
 

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 15:32:22 (permalink)
You only need to set up a given template once.
 
Then it's there forever

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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 15:46:43 (permalink)
I think you are over thinking this Djwayne. You use what you need to use and ignore the rest.
 
If you were using a hardware desk with 8 buses would saw off 7 of them if you couldn't use them? 

Best
John
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djwayne
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 16:14:36 (permalink)
That's what I was doing, using just what I needed and ignoring the rest, and that's where I got into trouble. The other level meters that I wasn't paying attention to, were lowering my output levels. I'd export a track and post it to SoundCloud, and it would be very quiet compared to other tracks on SoundCloud. It got so bad I could hardly hear my tracks...I had to do a complete search thru my audio chain to find the problem, and I did find it in Sonar's mixer. Once I corrected all the meters the volume came up......but I was shocked by how many meters were in the default chain.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/13 16:17:15 (permalink)
Well that's to be expected because every single bus has a pair of associated meters.
 
All of theses busses - assuming your audio is feeding each of them - should be showing the same level fluctuations & peak readings as you play your piece.

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stevec
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/14 14:04:41 (permalink)
Not to keep adding on, but...  the Metronome and Preview buses are not intended to ever be included in the signal chain, at least not by default.  As mentioned previously they serve very specific purposes, but routing your tracks' audio to or thru them is not one of those purposes.
 
You also mentioned a Pro Channel "Bus", but the Pro Channel is essentially a group of VST Plugins that can be applied to an audio track or bus.  There may be meters visible depending on which modules are included at the time, but if the entire Pro Channel strip is disabled (at the top) it also has no effect on the track and bus levels/meters.
 

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tlw
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/14 15:18:54 (permalink)
Your tracks may be quieter than others on Soundcloud because the other tracks have been mastered to optimise (or maximise) their true or apparent volume.

If you're not already using the appropriate tools to do the same, I suggest you do a bit of research into the use of limiters and compressors when mastering a track for distribution.

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Cactus Music
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/14 18:49:57 (permalink)
"The other level meters that I wasn't paying attention to, were lowering my output levels."
 
This statement shows me you still need to understand the signal path.
Meters don't lower your level. The level fader or knob is what controls your levels. The meter just shows you the results. There need only be a Master buss. All the others for your audio interface default to unity. If they are showing a low level then you are sending a low level output. As said over and over here, the master buss and the audio interface output channels should all show the same level unless you turn something down.
 Those other strips , metronome and preview mean nothing and have no bearing on your master unless you somehow have changed a default.
Where did you start the project from? Which template did you use? Or did you use a sample project? 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2016/09/14 19:12:26

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#28
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/14 19:44:57 (permalink)
djwayne
Seriously, how many level meters do you have to have ?? ............. it's ridiculous.

 
Why - how many can I have=-)?

Be the first one who thinks that you can
 
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djwayne
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Re: Mixer confusion... 2016/09/14 21:09:41 (permalink)
Well I tried mastering a track in Audition and my results came out way better....
 
http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=13450555&q=hi&newref=1
 
.
#30
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