Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC)

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AdamGrossmanLG
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2016/09/22 00:23:19 (permalink)

Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC)

Hello Everyone,
 
I am having real issues here trying to use ACT Learn to control softsynth parameters.
 
So I ACT LEARN  KNOB #1 on my MIDI controller for a parameter but guess what happens, it controls the parameter I want, but then also one I DONT want.  This is because of the MIDI CC mapping in each softsynth.

I strongly feel if you are going through ACT to control a softsynth, Sonar should STOP MIDI CC to the softsynth as well.

How do I get my KNOB #1 to JUST control the parameter I learned through ACT?

Thank You!
-Adam
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16 Replies Related Threads
    azslow3
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/22 05:18:45 (permalink)
    SilverBlueMedallion
    I strongly feel if you are going through ACT to control a softsynth, Sonar should STOP MIDI CC to the softsynth as well.

    Normally that is the case. When CC is used by ACT plug-in, it is no longer sent to the Synth.
     
    But there is one exception: if you have more then one ACT Plug-ins with this MIDI input, only CCs assigned in the last one are blocked.
     
    Possible solutions:
    a) use only one ACT plug-in per MIDI device
    b) reprogram your controller to use undefined CCs, not used in softsynths (but they still will be recorded into MIDI track if you modify parameters with track armed)
    c) add AZ Controller as yet another ACT plug-in (as the LAST) and in its Options tab set "Block all channel messages". That is not going to work in case you really want some controls or keys from the same device delivered to Synth.
     
    For ACT Dynamic Mapping (Learn) I strongly recommend to install and use "AZ ACT Fix" utility. Alternatively, you can use "ACT Editor" from MarKo or manually edit XML files. If you ignore that advise, sooner or later you will be confused even more.

    Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
    GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
    RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
    www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
    #2
    AdamGrossmanLG
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/22 17:07:49 (permalink)
    azslow3
    SilverBlueMedallion
    I strongly feel if you are going through ACT to control a softsynth, Sonar should STOP MIDI CC to the softsynth as well.

    Normally that is the case. When CC is used by ACT plug-in, it is no longer sent to the Synth.
     
    But there is one exception: if you have more then one ACT Plug-ins with this MIDI input, only CCs assigned in the last one are blocked.
     
    Possible solutions:
    a) use only one ACT plug-in per MIDI device
    b) reprogram your controller to use undefined CCs, not used in softsynths (but they still will be recorded into MIDI track if you modify parameters with track armed)
    c) add AZ Controller as yet another ACT plug-in (as the LAST) and in its Options tab set "Block all channel messages". That is not going to work in case you really want some controls or keys from the same device delivered to Synth.
     
    For ACT Dynamic Mapping (Learn) I strongly recommend to install and use "AZ ACT Fix" utility. Alternatively, you can use "ACT Editor" from MarKo or manually edit XML files. If you ignore that advise, sooner or later you will be confused even more.





     
    Thank you, I will check out these utlities. Kinda sux I need 3rd party software.
     
    Alos what do you mean by:  "But there is one exception: if you have more then one ACT Plug-ins with this MIDI input, only CCs assigned in the last one are blocked."
     
    I dont understand that line.  Of course I have many softsynths in my project, but only one should be controlled at a time depending on which synth I am adjusting parameters on.
    #3
    dcumpian
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/22 20:46:07 (permalink)
    You could also skip ACT altogether and use midi learn or AzCtrl to send the midi. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #4
    AdamGrossmanLG
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/22 21:08:22 (permalink)
    dcumpian
    You could also skip ACT altogether and use midi learn or AzCtrl to send the midi. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan




    problem is with MIDI LEARN, you cant use automation lanes.   All you get is the MIDI CC data in the PRV controller pane.  I want automation lanes.  It also just makes it a lot easier because the ACT windows shows what knob is what.


    #5
    dcumpian
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/22 22:00:28 (permalink)
    SilverBlueMedallion
    dcumpian
    You could also skip ACT altogether and use midi learn or AzCtrl to send the midi. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan




    problem is with MIDI LEARN, you cant use automation lanes.   All you get is the MIDI CC data in the PRV controller pane.  I want automation lanes.  It also just makes it a lot easier because the ACT windows shows what knob is what.






    After you record the automation, convert the CC to an automation lane. It is very easy to do. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan
     

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #6
    azslow3
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/23 06:00:26 (permalink)
    SilverBlueMedallion
    Alos what do you mean by:  "But there is one exception: if you have more then one ACT Plug-ins with this MIDI input, only CCs assigned in the last one are blocked."
     
    I dont understand that line.  Of course I have many softsynths in my project, but only one should be controlled at a time depending on which synth I am adjusting parameters on.

    I mean Sonar Preferences / Control Surfaces. Do you have several lines there? Do some of them have equal Inputs?
     
    SilverBlueMedallion
    Thank you, I will check out these utlities. Kinda sux I need 3rd party software.

    Do you mean you usually do not use 3rd party software with Sonar? So Cakewalk only Synths and FXes, no audio processing (iZotope Radius), etc. 

    Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
    GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
    RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
    www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
    #7
    AdamGrossmanLG
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/23 13:01:38 (permalink)
    azslow3
    SilverBlueMedallion
    Alos what do you mean by:  "But there is one exception: if you have more then one ACT Plug-ins with this MIDI input, only CCs assigned in the last one are blocked."
     
    I dont understand that line.  Of course I have many softsynths in my project, but only one should be controlled at a time depending on which synth I am adjusting parameters on.

    I mean Sonar Preferences / Control Surfaces. Do you have several lines there? Do some of them have equal Inputs?
     
    SilverBlueMedallion
    Thank you, I will check out these utlities. Kinda sux I need 3rd party software.

    Do you mean you usually do not use 3rd party software with Sonar? So Cakewalk only Synths and FXes, no audio processing (iZotope Radius), etc. 




    yes i use 3rd party SYNTHS.  
    #8
    AdamGrossmanLG
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/23 13:01:50 (permalink)
    dcumpian
    SilverBlueMedallion
    dcumpian
    You could also skip ACT altogether and use midi learn or AzCtrl to send the midi. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan




    problem is with MIDI LEARN, you cant use automation lanes.   All you get is the MIDI CC data in the PRV controller pane.  I want automation lanes.  It also just makes it a lot easier because the ACT windows shows what knob is what.






    After you record the automation, convert the CC to an automation lane. It is very easy to do. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan
     




    How do you do that?
    #9
    dcumpian
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/23 14:29:02 (permalink)
    SilverBlueMedallion
    dcumpian
    SilverBlueMedallion
    dcumpian
    You could also skip ACT altogether and use midi learn or AzCtrl to send the midi. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan




    problem is with MIDI LEARN, you cant use automation lanes.   All you get is the MIDI CC data in the PRV controller pane.  I want automation lanes.  It also just makes it a lot easier because the ACT windows shows what knob is what.






    After you record the automation, convert the CC to an automation lane. It is very easy to do. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan
     




    How do you do that?


     
    This is for X2, but I don't think it has changed much, if any:
     
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=3&help=Automation.14.html
     
    Regards,
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #10
    scook
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/23 14:37:05 (permalink)
    dcumpian
    This is for X2, but I don't think it has changed much, if any:
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=3&help=Automation.14.html



    A URL to an older help page can usually be altered to the new page by removing the version from the url. In the case removing the %20X2 from the URL yields the current version page
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Automation.14.html
     
    Another way would be to record the CC data directly to an automation lane of a MIDI track eliminating the need to convert the CC data to automation.
    #11
    AdamGrossmanLG
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/23 16:12:36 (permalink)
    dcumpian
    SilverBlueMedallion
    dcumpian
    SilverBlueMedallion
    dcumpian
    You could also skip ACT altogether and use midi learn or AzCtrl to send the midi. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan




    problem is with MIDI LEARN, you cant use automation lanes.   All you get is the MIDI CC data in the PRV controller pane.  I want automation lanes.  It also just makes it a lot easier because the ACT windows shows what knob is what.






    After you record the automation, convert the CC to an automation lane. It is very easy to do. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan
     




    How do you do that?


     
    This is for X2, but I don't think it has changed much, if any:
     
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=3&help=Automation.14.html
     
    Regards,
    Dan




     
    Thank you!
    #12
    AdamGrossmanLG
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/23 16:13:32 (permalink)
    scook
    dcumpian
    This is for X2, but I don't think it has changed much, if any:
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=3&help=Automation.14.html



    A URL to an older help page can usually be altered to the new page by removing the version from the url. In the case removing the %20X2 from the URL yields the current version page
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Automation.14.html
     
    Another way would be to record the CC data directly to an automation lane of a MIDI track eliminating the need to convert the CC data to automation.




     
     
    How do you do that? I thought you can only choose a synth paramter in there, not a MIDI CC.   I also worry bc what if the MIDI Learns change, then I will have orphaned MIDI CC data
    #13
    scook
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/23 16:28:57 (permalink)
    The MIDI... option at the bottom of a MIDI track Edit Filter Automation section calls a dialog similar to the Controller Pane Edit Filter drop down in the PRV. Once the data is written to the automation lane, it may be used by any plug-in using the MIDI track as an input. If it is the basis of a "learned" control and the plug-in forgets the setting somehow, it can always be re-learned. If the data is no longer needed, delete the envelop and the data is no longer in the project.
    #14
    dcumpian
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/23 20:27:32 (permalink)
    scook
    The MIDI... option at the bottom of a MIDI track Edit Filter Automation section calls a dialog similar to the Controller Pane Edit Filter drop down in the PRV. Once the data is written to the automation lane, it may be used by any plug-in using the MIDI track as an input. If it is the basis of a "learned" control and the plug-in forgets the setting somehow, it can always be re-learned. If the data is no longer needed, delete the envelop and the data is no longer in the project.




    Steve, is this the dialog that only shows the CC's that are available in the current instrument definition?  If so, then yes this does work, but if you are using VSTi's you need to add a bunch of CC's to the default instrument definition or they won't be available.  Unless there is another way I don't know about. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #15
    scook
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/23 21:12:48 (permalink)
    The drop down shows commonly used CC values and also accepts direct numeric input.
    #16
    dcumpian
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    Re: Serious MIDI Confusion (ACT/MIDI CC) 2016/09/23 23:43:44 (permalink)
    scook
    The drop down shows commonly used CC values and also accepts direct numeric input.




    Wouldn't you know it...the one thing I didn't try, lol. Oh well, my drop down shows them all now. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #17
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