Is Presonus this this bad?

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JohnKenn
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2016/09/22 19:57:43 (permalink)

Is Presonus this this bad?

Reality check for me. Redundant issue.
 
I got an old, ancient Dell quad core. Win XP 32. Hard wired M-Audio 1010LT.
 
Sails by with elegance as old and outdated as it is.
 
Got my laptop. Win 7 64 bit, i7 processor. Macho RAM. Computer specs don't compare.
 
Sound card for the laptop is a Presonus 22VSL or something like that. USB 2.
 
Installed the OhmTube vsti Juno 106 emulator. Workd great on the XP box. Sounds like a popcorn popper on the laptop unless I increase the buffer size to 1024 or greater. Then still crackling if I hit too many keys. Not the only device to fail on the faster system.
 
Are you guys sure that USB is great and that the fault is in the Presonus drivers unable to optimize the load. Highly suspect from here that USB 2 just totally sucks in comparison with a hard wired unit.
 
Any advice appreciated.
 
John
 
 
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20 Replies Related Threads

    TheMaartian
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/22 20:28:37 (permalink)
    There may be a couple of things that you will need to check, but I can tell you the the AudioBox 22VSL driver (the same as for my 44VSL) sucks, and is no longer supported. The current version of the driver is v1.3. They have a "new" driver (Universal Control v1.81), but you lose the VSL functionality, and I've heard plenty of moaning and groaning about the "new" driver, as well. Check the downloads page.
     
    http://www.presonus.com/products/AudioBox-22VSL/downloads
     
    As far as USB2 goes for audio...I have a Tascam US-16x08 that I'm able to run easily at a buffer size of 128 when tracking. Plenty of bandwidth available, especially for a 2x2.
     
    The 22VSL is USB buss powered, and that can be part of the problem on a laptop if you use phantom power. There can be other issues. On Win7, you should be able to get it to work. Forget Win10. My 44VSL is in a closet, and only gets used for mobile recording to an Android tablet.

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    #2
    dcumpian
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/22 20:42:33 (permalink)
    If your laptop has both USB2 and USB3 ports, make sure you use the USB2 port. Otherwise, you may need to use a USB2 hub or disable USB3 support. There is no guarantee that the hub will resolve your issues, but it has been reported that it can. 
     
    Regards,
    Dan

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    #3
    fireberd
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/23 06:41:58 (permalink)
    Run the free DPC Latency Mon program.  That may help to sort out what is causing the problems.
     
    Does regular PC sound work OK? or do you get popping/crackling etc with the regular PC sound too?  PC sound problems are were an often reported problem on the Win 7 forum, especially with laptops and the Wi-Fi enabled.
     
    DPC Latency Mon download:
    http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

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    #4
    JohnKenn
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/24 08:49:27 (permalink)
    Guys,
    Thanks for these leads. Will follow up on them and see if I can squeeze a few pops and  crackles out of the audio. Not looking good for the Presonus box.
    John
    #5
    pwalpwal
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/24 09:01:06 (permalink)
    also, try running it with the default windows driver rather than the sucky presonus driver

    just a sec

    #6
    tlw
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/24 10:50:33 (permalink)
    fireberd
    Run the free DPC Latency Mon program.  That may help to sort out what is causing the problems.

     
    This. Do this before doing anything else. Changing the interface won't help in the slightest if the problem is e.g. the wifi driver (or some other driver or background application) grabbing big chunks of cpu and PCI bus time.
     

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    #7
    scook
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/24 11:04:01 (permalink)
    Is the problem only with the one plug-in? IF so, it would not point to the interface driver. If it is a general problem with SONAR on the laptop and the laptop has multiple USB ports try them all including USB3. Also try older drivers if possible. I did not update to the latest driver. My 44VSL runs fine on 64bit Win10 with an older driver and I use the VSL software. Running the interface on a different desktop and 64bit Win7, I had to use a USB3 port to get the interface to work properly.
    #8
    JohnKenn
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/24 22:25:53 (permalink)
    This is nuts.
    The box works better, not great but better with the generic direct sound driver than with the latest and greatest Presonus driver.
     
    Have to follow through with all the advice given here, but it is looking like the Presonus drivers suck. Maybe USB 2 works well, just can't prove it to myself with this expensive paper weight.
     
    John
    #9
    fireberd
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/25 06:40:30 (permalink)
    I tried out one of the new Studio 192 USB 3.0 unit.  The auto buffer setup in the Presonus program set the buffer very high (don't remember exactly) and latency was in the 25ms range.  Manually I got it down but not as low as my current MOTU unit or the Roland Octa-Capture that the MOTU replaced.   The Studio 192 died the second day I had it and it was returned so I really didn't have a chance to fully check it out.

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    #10
    olemon
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/25 11:32:03 (permalink)
    This is an informative thread.  I downloaded and ran the Latency Mon program.  My system red-lined terribly with WLAN and AVG running.  I disable those whenever I record, but even without those programs running Latency Mon reported problems and suggested CPU Throttling as a culprit and/or BIOS.
     
    Now, I've used my studio laptop for live broadcasts before with a Logitech HD Webcam.  Turns out that program appeared as a Hard Page Fault offender.  I uninstalled it.  There is a BIOS update for my laptop, but I have no intention of risking that.  However, I did check on a few driver updates and there was one for my Quad Capture, 1.5.2 from 1.5, which I installed.  
     
    Previously, I had to set the ASIO Buffer at nearly 1024 samples to avoid erratic playback, but with the new driver installed and Logitech Webcam software uninstalled, I was at a 96 sample buffer with a 9.8 sec Total Round Trip on a 6-track project with few plugins.
     
    Latency Mon still shows my system in the red though with ACPI.sys being the major offender.

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    #11
    stevesweat
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/25 12:26:17 (permalink)
    I fell out of love with my presonus 1818 pretty quick. I "upgraded" to the latest firmware and lost the fat channels and ease of use suffered. I didn't realize it didn't offer direct monitoring till I already had it. God I miss being able to use my Aardvark q10! Anybody wanna buy a slightly used Presonus audio box 1818vsl??

    Steve
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    #12
    JohnKenn
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/28 16:32:00 (permalink)
    Followup on this with a good ending (so far...).
     
    Check out this site from Sweeteater and download LatencyMon.
     
    http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/
     
    Realize that Presonus drivers suck if I can get better performance from the direct MS driver, but used LatencyMon to identify problems and fix them. Does better than the DSP program (many thanks for this reference). DSP gave me a yellow bar okay, LatencyMon reported everything was forked up and how to troubleshoot.
     
    Not sure if my computer won't burst into flames from overheating, but can get the wretched 22VSL to run S-Gear and the 106-Emulator without sounding like a popcorn popper.
     
    Happy camper until something melts down.
     
    John
    #13
    JohnKenn
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/28 17:20:27 (permalink)
    Followup on a followup. This from the standpoint of win 10.
    I lost the link wanting to share, but think it was provided after running LatencyMon when I was having major problems. Things working well now, so no flags and links, and my old age Alzheimer's can't remember back past 5 minutes at best.
    They give the option of a reg modification file to install additional, and to my opinion, critical entries into the control power management scheme. No spyware. Got the file if anyone wants and can't find.
    What gets added is the "Processor power management" field under the Control Panel "Power Options" tab.
    Hi points seems to be advanced options in core parking, minimum processor state,and max processor state. Advice was to set these percentages to 100 to get the biggest bang.
    Laptop started flying like a bat out of hell, but the fan on all the time. I've gone in and modified these parameters to 50%.
    Fan is off most of the time and able to get the Presonus running pop free at a 256 buffer. Before this intervention, 256 was complete static and garbage.
     
    Steve, not that it may work for you, but give this a shot before dumping your 1818 as a boat anchor.
     
    Hope this info will help. Even if no manifest problems, a good analysis and shows where there is room for improvement.
     
    John
    #14
    JohnKenn
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/28 18:16:31 (permalink)
    Followup on followup on followup...
     
    Got over zealous on 256 buffer. Banging away on the elegant 106-Emulato while S-Gear on another track. Both major CPU hogs, as cool as they are. Removed the S-Gear track and 106 behaving properly and the other way around.
     
    Got unacceptable pops throttling back to 50%. Fortunately, can fine tune the percentages to a balance. Safe static one one end, pending fire bomb on the other.
     
    John
     
    #15
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/29 08:37:56 (permalink)
    Laptops are prone to higher DPC Latency.
    Due to tight space constraints, performance throttling is used to keep temps in check.
    If you're running an i7 CPU, it likely has lower clock-speed than your tower/desktop.
    You're also dealing with power-management (for long battery life), which affects performance.
     
    Depending on the laptop, you may or may not have much control over the above.
     
     

    Best Regards,

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    #16
    JohnKenn
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/29 08:40:31 (permalink)
    Guys,
     
    Here's the link on managing CPU throttling, including reg file to add the control as the Processor power management tab. Very useful so far, but does anyone see any dangers in changing these values, as in overheating things?
     
    http://isboxer.com/wiki/H..._Throttling_in_Windows
     
    John
    #17
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/29 09:51:49 (permalink)
    FWIW, Those settings are *part* of managing CPU throttling.
    Other parameters may or may not be exposed in the BIOS.
     
    No, you will not burn up the processor with those settings.
     
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
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    #18
    BrFrBob
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/29 11:02:35 (permalink)
    What perfect timing!  I, too, am getting drivers ready for Windows 1607 and it looks like my 44vsl is going the way of my E-MU 1820.  They should stack nicely together in the corner.  As a public service, I should post what I plan to buy next so everyone can stay away from it.  This one thread answered more in 15 minutes than years of searching the web.  Thank you.  Very disappointed in Presonus.

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    #19
    JohnKenn
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/29 13:33:18 (permalink)
    Thanks Jim for the BIOS reminder.
     
    BrFr,  I'm holding my breath, but with throttle adjustments in win 1607, the Presonus card is working a lot better. Was going to do that test where they run over it with a car, and see what my results were. Might however be able to hang on to it for a while longer.
     
    John
    #20
    JohnKenn
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    Re: Is Presonus this this bad? 2016/09/30 23:49:28 (permalink)
    Wanting to share another link that may be found to be useful:
     
    https://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/2288/throttlestop-6-00
     
    Haven't had time to figure it out yet, but supposedly can tweak top level throttle parameters. May work, who knows...
     
    If accurate, BIG IF...  shows the motherboard temperatures out of the box. Should then allow the reg file posted earlier to control throttle percentage and keep the central unit cool while chasing a balance of speed vs fire hazard.
     
    Thanks Jim for your input. Resonates with what the designers are saying that the core is engineered to fly at 100% without fear of frying something. Laptops and thin Macs maybe needing a bit more caution if you are closer to the Equator of in Death Valley.
     
    Got a Dell i7 desktop opened full bore by default. My laptop was cut back to 35% by default causing all kinds of problems with the Presonus card. Upped the thing to 50%. ThrottleStop reports max 45C, way too uncomfortable without opening a window for humanoids, but under the fry point for the hardware. As advised, throttle limitations may be set in the BIOS in which case surface software attempts to disable will be overriden.
     
    John
    #21
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