Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options

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doment500
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2016/09/28 16:43:49 (permalink)

Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options

I have been an user of Cakewalk for over 10 years and I must admit, I have never experimented with the bounce options. I usually just use the Fast Bounce option for everything. However, I recently mixed a song down with the Fast bounce option unchecked and, I may be mistaken but, there was an audible difference in sound quality. The mix sounded more open and lively. 
 
Please let me know if my ears were deceiving me.
 
How do you mix down your projects?
 
Thanks, 

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    Zargg
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/28 16:54:18 (permalink)
    Hi. If I do not use external inserts, I use fast bounce as standard.
    Must say that I cannot hear any difference.
    All the best.

    Ken Nilsen
    Zargg
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    #2
    Sheanes
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/28 17:02:09 (permalink)
    tried some times to see if there's a difference, but fast/nonfast were really the same (nulled).
    iic checking '64 double precision' doubles the size of the files, so I have that unchecked always, and I never dither...but all these things don't make or brake things imo.
     
    #3
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/28 17:07:22 (permalink)
    I have never detected a difference between fast bounce & real time bounce

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    doment500
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/28 17:46:58 (permalink)
    Thanks for the feedback folks. I'll continue to play around with it.

    Pay me or the chicken gets it!
    #5
    John
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/28 17:49:31 (permalink)
    According to Noel there is no difference in the quality of the resulting wave file. However, if I recall correctly there may be an impact on some few plugins. Not all plugins can handle a fast bounce. That may be a historical issue in that most new plugins are just fine with it. One symptom is a crash where a plugin can't handle it or a loss of sound quality. The is a simple way to check though using the null test.  
     
    I prefer fast bounce for the time is saves. 

    Best
    John
    #6
    bitflipper
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/28 17:56:14 (permalink)
    Within SONAR, there is no difference. Think of a slow bounce as a slowed-down fast bounce. Slowed so you can listen to it if you wish. Other than that, the math being performed under the hood is the same.
     
    Of course, there are rare exceptions. For example, if you are low on RAM and have a slow disk drive that cannot keep up with streaming samples, you could end up with crackles or dropouts in the bounced audio that can be fixed with a slow bounce. But if you bounce a project and hear no artifacts, you can rest assured that you haven't sacrificed any quality by performing a fast bounce.
     


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    #7
    arlen2133
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/28 17:56:52 (permalink)
    I've done both and haven't really heard an audible difference.
    I currently use the "real time" bounce but that's more because it's usually not a time issue for me.
     
    As John said, if your plugins aren't having an issue with fast bounce, there's nothing wrong with that.
    Should (all things being equal) sound the same.

    Arlen
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    #8
    chuckebaby
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/28 18:34:53 (permalink)
    the brain has its ways of playing games with us.
    this is one of them.

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    #9
    bitflipper
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/28 19:47:56 (permalink)
    There's a whole cottage industry built around the fact that we never hear anything the same way twice, and how we can fool ourselves into hearing differences that don't exist. That's why there's a market for $1800 LP/CD/cable demagnetizers.
    post edited by bitflipper - 2016/09/28 20:14:44


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    #10
    icontakt
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/28 21:57:44 (permalink)
    I can't find this information in online help so I'm not sure if it's true, but the post #9 in the thread below says that plugin upsampling only works when doing a non-real-time bounce. So, if the information is true and if your project is recorded at 44.1kHz/48kHz, fast bounce should probably make the project sound more 'open and lively' (if plugins that benefit from the upsampling feature are used in the project). 
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/The-Foxboro-PlugIn-Upsampling-Thread-m3247497.aspx
     

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    #11
    Kev999
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/28 23:57:15 (permalink)
    Some plugins don't work properly with Fast Bounce. NI Battery is one example. I tend to use it most projects, so I got out of the habit of using Fast Bounce a long time ago.

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    williamcopper
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/29 07:33:22 (permalink)
    Bouncing is definitely a mysterious thing in Sonar.  I spent a lot of time trying to figure out differences, why and how --- dramatic changes can occur from the "Source Category" choice and from the "Source Hardware Outputs" choice.   The 64-bit engine setting also may be an issue (I always leave it checked).  
     
    Another big reason that changes can occur has to do with controller lookback -- if you are attempting to bounce just a section of a project, there's a strong likelihood that your mix will be quite different than if you bounce the whole thing. 
     
    Another thing that popped out of previous discussions had nothing to do with Sonar -- if you change the bit depth (accidentally or intentionally), that can change the sound too.   Probably obvious to many, but it caught me when using a default "save-as" that had 16bit set -- this was in SoundForge, working with audio from the Sonar bounces.
     
    There was at least one long thread about this, maybe 6 months ago.  Probably many threads over the years. 
     
    #13
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/29 09:07:29 (permalink)
    Bit depth would make a massive difference IF YOU DIDN'T DITHER.
     
    If you DID dither then there should be no audible degradation, maybe with the exception of extremely long reverb tails at a very, very low level.

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/29 09:25:01 (permalink)
    icontakt
    I can't find this information in online help so I'm not sure if it's true, but the post #9 in the thread below says that plugin upsampling only works when doing a non-real-time bounce. So, if the information is true and if your project is recorded at 44.1kHz/48kHz, fast bounce should probably make the project sound more 'open and lively' (if plugins that benefit from the upsampling feature are used in the project). 
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/The-Foxboro-PlugIn-Upsampling-Thread-m3247497.aspx

    Good find. I'd missed that post.
     
    I'm wondering if Craig mis-spoke, though, and meant to say the oversampling is disabled during an audible bounce. There'd be no need to avoid the overhead for a slow bounce unless you're simultaneously playing back the mix while bouncing.
     


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #15
    williamcopper
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    Re: Fast Bounce Vs Other bounce options 2016/09/29 09:28:08 (permalink)
    As I'm trying to figure out the sends on non-solo'd tracks, I remember another feature of bounce:
     
    THE ROUTING OF THE DESTINATION TRACK MAKES A DIFFERENCE!!    
     
    Not at all clear why this should be, but it is.    So:  if you use "New Track" for your bounce, that will have some kind of default routing.   If you create an audio track, and set its output routing, and then use that as the destination for your bounce, then there will quite probably be a difference in the sound. 
    #16
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