Helpful ReplyNew load balancing......so far so good

Author
emwhy
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1402
  • Joined: 2006/01/03 15:09:02
  • Status: offline
2016/09/29 10:59:22 (permalink)

New load balancing......so far so good

Downloaded the new update early and loaded up the Abbey Road Drums in Kontakt. They have long bee a source of grief for overworking the first core at low latency. With the new update to SPLAT I'm happy to report things are VERY even across all 8 cores, first time that's ever happened. Thanks bakers....love this update just for this feature!
 
#1
RSMCGUITAR
Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1318
  • Joined: 2014/12/27 02:33:15
  • Location: Toronto
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/09/29 13:12:04 (permalink)
Yeah this feature seems to be working VERY well on my end too!
#2
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10666
  • Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
  • Location: Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/09/29 14:58:48 (permalink)
Hi. It works like a charm here as well. All cores are quite even, and seems more effective.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
BBZ
Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#3
rickidoo
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 59
  • Joined: 2015/01/07 15:36:49
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/09/29 16:59:06 (permalink)
I can only say it has been a long time since I have seen Sonar handle so many VST's so well.  It just seemed to me as we progressed from X1 (producer..., X2 on up, from 32 to 64 bit, sonar was "straining" to run VST's that formerly ran well in the quantities that I want to run.
 
Thanks Cake for tackling load balancing for VST's.  It's working fantastic on my system; it's like an engine super charger.
 
THANKS!
Rick
 
#4
schwa
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 118
  • Joined: 2003/11/18 18:34:55
  • Location: Boston
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/09/29 21:14:53 (permalink)
I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I'll give it a shot. 
 
Does anyone know why load balancing only applies to buffers set at 256 samples or above?  If seems it would be even more powerful at lower settings.

HP Envy 850, MOTU 424/2408, MIDI Express, NVidea GTX970, Project Studio 6 monitors, Mackie Control and Ext, Frontier Transport
Solid State Logic Alpha VHD, UA LA-610, DBX 566, TC M One-XL, POD XT, Roland XP-30
Shure KCM-44, SM-7, SM-81 (pair), SM-57
Martin D28 Marquis, Strats, LP's, Carr Mercury, and Marshall Amps
SONAR Platinum, Rapture Pro, Pro Channel Pack, Waves Gold, L3, L2, TH3 (Full), Amplitube 4
#5
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
  • Total Posts : 6475
  • Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
  • Location: Boston, MA, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/09/30 00:04:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby MacFurse 2016/09/30 21:50:36
We do this to avoid it being too aggressive on the CPU. If you want to experiment with more aggressive load balancing, you can tweak the MinPluginLoadBalancingBufferSamples setting all the way down to 32 samples. It defaults to 128 samples where it wont load balance unless the audio buffer size is at least 2x that. Its described in the documentation.
 
Keep in mind that load balancing is not a cpu saver. Its actually the opposite, it attempts to use as much available CPU power to get the job done faster. For audio processing, finishing the job faster means fewer dropouts even with high loads. With more aggressive load balancing you can get diminishing returns esp with projects that are already very high load. Hence we chose to keep the default settings moderate. 

Noel Borthwick
Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
#6
Shambler
Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 783
  • Joined: 2010/07/06 05:20:19
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/09/30 12:34:49 (permalink)
Fantastic results!
 
Laying an arm on my keyboard when it's routed to U-he Diva in divine mode and lots of FX
 
Before...

After...



SONAR Platypus on Win10 64bit.
Studio One Pro / Cubase Pro 9.5...just in case.
8GB i7-2600 3.4GHz Gigabyte  Z68XP-UD3P
Geforce GTX970
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd Gen
Prophet 12/Rev 2/Virus Snow
Zebra2/DIVA/NI Komplete 10
#7
Shambler
Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 783
  • Joined: 2010/07/06 05:20:19
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/09/30 14:12:10 (permalink)
Have to post again, this new feature is absolutely astounding!

I notice now that core 1 often has nothing to do, will adjusting minpluginloadbalancingbuffersamples make it kick in earlier/later?

SONAR Platypus on Win10 64bit.
Studio One Pro / Cubase Pro 9.5...just in case.
8GB i7-2600 3.4GHz Gigabyte  Z68XP-UD3P
Geforce GTX970
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd Gen
Prophet 12/Rev 2/Virus Snow
Zebra2/DIVA/NI Komplete 10
#8
Geo524
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 647
  • Joined: 2010/04/18 00:41:06
  • Location: UpState, NY
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/09/30 16:57:34 (permalink)
Excellent update Bakers!! Thanks.

Win 10 x 64; CbB; SPlat; MixCraft 8 Pro; AMD FX4130, 3.8 GHz; DDR3 32 GB Ram; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20; SSD 1TB, 2 x 1TB and 1 x 640 GB HDD; Mackie HR624 Monitors, KRK G2 Rockit 5's, Dual HP S2331 23" Monitors
Music and SFX 
http://www.radiosparx.com/georgeandmarguerite

 
#9
MacFurse
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 324
  • Joined: 2013/11/10 07:25:54
  • Location: Newcastle - Australia
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/09/30 21:31:28 (permalink)
After seeing these posts I'm looking forward to setting some time aside to understand this feature, so thanks for the comments. I've been having some trouble with some new Waves plugs that have been bringing things to a grinding halt and this sounds like a possible way of dealing with it. Thanks again.

Platinum. i7 4771 3.5ghz. ECU H87 mobo with 3 monitor support. 16gb Ripjaws 1600mhz. Focusrite 18i20. 2 x 250gb Samsung EVO SSD's OP/Programs. 2x1TB Seagate Baracuda sata3 data drives. 200gb sata2 bootable drive for online and downloading only. Seagate 2tb USB 3.0 backup drive.  2x27in monitors. Rode K2 valve mic. Sontronics STC-1 pair. Studio Projects B1 condenser. SM58B. SM57B. Presonus Eureka Preamp.
#10
cparmerlee
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1153
  • Joined: 2013/06/25 22:14:42
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/09/30 22:28:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby MacFurse 2016/09/30 23:29:04
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Keep in mind that load balancing is not a cpu saver. Its actually the opposite,



Absolutely.  And at the deeper levels of the CPU architecture, "balanced" utilization may REDUCE the effective CPU speed.  I know this may sound like heresy.  However, modern CPU architectures are highly dependent on the shared memory system.  When workloads migrate from one core to another, this may cause the core's instruction pipeline to go idle for one or more cycles as the memory system responds to get the data where it is needed.
 
For example, let's say you have 4 cores.  Without aggressive load balancing, this might look like
Core O: 35%
Core 1: 19%
Core 2: 65%
Core 3: 43%
That is to say , aggregate CPU busy of  162% / 4 = 40.5%
 
With aggressive load balancing, this same workload might run:
Core O: 49%
Core 1: 53%
Core 2: 51%
Core 3: 54%
or about 52% busy.  (This is probably an exaggeration for example.  In the real world, the "load balancing penalty" is typically under 5%.)
 
If you aren't actually developing dispatching queues, balancing can be counter-productive.  The alternative is referred to as "CPU affinity."  It is a real thing. 
 
Of course, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.  If the balancing technique allows more VSTs to run more smoothly, then it is a good thing.  But don't make the mistake of surmising that it is inherently a good thing for the cores all to be running at the same utilization.  it is not.
 
And to make matters worse, the memory architectures do vary from one chip (and especially from one manufacturer) to another.  So what works dandy on one chip may not actually be so helpful on another chip.  From what I have seen of this release so far, it looks like their is a decent amount of affinity happening, so my guess is it will be a good thing for just about everybody.
post edited by cparmerlee - 2016/09/30 22:51:04

DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread  Memory: 16 GB      Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storage

sonocrafters.com
#11
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
  • Total Posts : 6475
  • Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
  • Location: Boston, MA, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/10/01 09:06:11 (permalink)
Our algorithm and MP engine is tuned to get performance without incurring excess overhead from the scheduling itself. But yes this is not always one size fits all because projects workloads and systems are different.
We could make it tweakable (it is internally) but then it would hard for many users to understand and it defeats the purpose somewhat. In the future we will be making it even smarter in how it determines workloads.

Noel Borthwick
Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
#12
slyman
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 194
  • Joined: 2015/08/31 13:55:12
  • Location: Montreal, QC
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/10/01 09:31:08 (permalink)
Strangely, after my original Platinum install a while ago , I had followed a Windows optimization guide for DAW's wich had a config to use CPU cores evenly (core parking). Therefore I always had a very good balance between them, at least from Sonar's monitoring view. I've never seen a specific core doing overtime.
That said, I'd like to know if there are any situation in which my system could benifit from this new feature.
Any suggestions?
 

Sonar Platinum, Gigabyte H87-HD3, Intel 4770k, 16Mb Ram, Win 10 Pro, RME Babyface Pro, Roland A-Pro 800, Presonus Studio Channel, Kemper Profiling Amp, Strat/Tele/LesPaul/Taylor 214ce/Dean Cadillac/P-Bass
#13
jbraner
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1830
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:38:35
  • Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/10/02 16:53:08 (permalink)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
We do this to avoid it being too aggressive on the CPU. If you want to experiment with more aggressive load balancing, you can tweak the MinPluginLoadBalancingBufferSamples setting all the way down to 32 samples. It defaults to 128 samples where it wont load balance unless the audio buffer size is at least 2x that. Its described in the documentation.
 
Keep in mind that load balancing is not a cpu saver. Its actually the opposite, it attempts to use as much available CPU power to get the job done faster. For audio processing, finishing the job faster means fewer dropouts even with high loads. With more aggressive load balancing you can get diminishing returns esp with projects that are already very high load. Hence we chose to keep the default settings moderate. 


Noel,
I think the documentation is wrong. It says
"The MinPluginLoadBalancingBufferSamples setting should not be confused with the Mixing Latency Buffer Size setting. Load balancing subdivides the audio buffer into multiple smaller buffers depending on the number of plug-ins in the FX Rack. If the Mixing Latency Buffer Size value is smaller than MinPluginLoadBalancingBufferSamples ÷ 2 samples, then load balancing has no effect."


But shouldn't that say "if the buffer size is smaller than MinPluginyadayada TIMES 2" (rather than divided by 2)?
Forgive me as I'm on a ipad and copy/paste is a PIA ;-)

John Braner
https://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JohnBraner
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
 
- Intel i7 3770K 3.5GHz
- Windows 10 Pro - 64 bit
- Cakewalk by BandLab x64
- Reaper x64
- 16GB RAM
- Asus P8z77-V mobo - using the integrated Intel graphic card (HD4000)
- MOTU Ultralite AVB audio interface
I usually use ASIO set at 64 or 128 samples
er - that's it I think...
#14
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
  • Total Posts : 6475
  • Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
  • Location: Boston, MA, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/10/02 18:20:03 (permalink)
Yes that is a typo - it should be X 2. Thanks I'll let documentation know.

Noel Borthwick
Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
#15
soens
Max Output Level: -23.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5154
  • Joined: 2005/09/16 03:19:55
  • Location: Location: Location
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/10/02 18:22:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2016/10/02 21:56:59
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
- it should be X 2. Thanks I'll let documentation know.


... isn't X2 obsolete now?
 
just curious.
post edited by soens - 2016/10/02 18:44:38
#16
jbraner
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1830
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:38:35
  • Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
  • Status: offline
Re: New load balancing......so far so good 2016/10/03 04:38:26 (permalink)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Yes that is a typo - it should be X 2. Thanks I'll let documentation know.

Thanks Noel - that had me confused at first - but you're explanations made it pretty clear what is going on...

John Braner
https://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JohnBraner
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
 
- Intel i7 3770K 3.5GHz
- Windows 10 Pro - 64 bit
- Cakewalk by BandLab x64
- Reaper x64
- 16GB RAM
- Asus P8z77-V mobo - using the integrated Intel graphic card (HD4000)
- MOTU Ultralite AVB audio interface
I usually use ASIO set at 64 or 128 samples
er - that's it I think...
#17
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1