Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance?

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Vyacheslav
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2016/10/10 01:22:02 (permalink)

Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance?

Hi All!
I see that the load indicator on the processor cores (CPU meter) show an even distribution of resources. But as in the past glitches in projects remained the same.
Why?
post edited by Vyacheslav - 2016/10/10 07:25:09

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    karhide
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 01:47:25 (permalink)
    I think you need to give a little more detail about the projects that are giving you problems but it could be that you are using synth plugins which are not part of the load balancing across the cores.  
     
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    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 02:07:13 (permalink)
    OK! I understood! Very cool! I use unbalanced plugins! Bravo! Thanks!
    ----------------------
    Is there a list of plug-ins balanced (of course, except for plugins from Cakewalk) and where can I see?
    ---------------------
    1. If I do not work with balanced plug-ins (which obviously), CPU indicator should be showing an uneven load on the eggs .., sorry, the cores!
    2. And If the CPU display shows a balanced intake, then he's lying!
    Is not it so?
    post edited by Vyacheslav - 2016/10/10 05:14:12

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 04:50:48 (permalink)
    I think it would be easier if you were to list the plugins you are using

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    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 04:58:56 (permalink)
    Slate, UAD, Eventide, Sonalksis, Ample, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5, Steven Slate Drums 4, Kontakt, MusicLab RealGuitar, VirtualGuitarist 2, Sonitus, AOM...

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    The Grim
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 05:52:43 (permalink)
    you probably already know this, but just to be sure, you must enable plugin load balancing by ticking the box in preferences (sorry can't recall the exact place). i myself have noticed a good increase in performance in sonar platinum since the release previous to this one, (quite amazing in my opinion) and with the latest release that certainly has not changed for the worse
    #6
    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 06:52:25 (permalink)
    Thanks The Grim. This must be done individually for each plug-in?
    Or are you about it? - http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=NewFeatures.002.html
    But it's obvious! ))
    post edited by Vyacheslav - 2016/10/10 07:22:47

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    The Grim
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 06:54:48 (permalink)
    you just enable it once in preferences/audio/playback and recording
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    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 07:05:28 (permalink)
    Of course I did it.  ))

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    dwardzala
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 07:10:04 (permalink)
    Perhaps your performance issues aren't due to CPU usage?

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    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 07:31:00 (permalink)
    Vyacheslav
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    Load balancing doesn't apply to your instruments so if the bulk of your load was coming from them then it may not significantly help. What does your CPU load before and after load balancing look like? What is your audio buffer size in preferences?

    Noel Borthwick
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    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 08:46:38 (permalink)
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
    Vyacheslav
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    Load balancing doesn't apply to your instruments so if the bulk of your load was coming from them then it may not significantly help.
    1. What does your CPU load before and after load balancing look like?
    2. What is your audio buffer size in preferences?

    Thanks, Noel!
    1. Before - It looks like without this update: 1st kernel (core?) is loaded, the other not.
    2. 256.
    dwardzala
    Perhaps your performance issues aren't due to CPU usage?

    I do not think. The configuration of the studio in the signature.
    post edited by Vyacheslav - 2016/10/10 09:10:16

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    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 08:54:12 (permalink)
    Vyacheslav
    1. If I do not work with balanced plug-ins (which obviously), CPU indicator should be showing an uneven load on the eggs .., sorry, the cores!
    2. And If the CPU display shows a balanced intake, then he's lying!
    Is not it so?




    not correct. my cores used to be very balanced in many projects even before load balancing - because Sonar had multi-processor support before and when using similar plugins across many tracks, it did already do a good job on distributing the load. the new load balance should be applied if you have a few tracks which have a lot of plugs alongside tracks that only use a few plugs. it helps reading the documentation because it is very clearly explained there (e.g. when to enable)
    post edited by Rob[at]Sound-Rehab - 2016/10/10 09:17:00

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 09:06:55 (permalink)
    Load balancing is only going to help performance if unbalanced loads were the problem in the first place.
     
    You can test this by pulling up a problematic project with load balancing disabled. If your CPU is running out of steam, and you see that one core is pegged doing all the work, then better load balancing may solve the problem by reducing the load on that overworked first core. Assuming, as Noel notes above, that the plugins placing the heaviest load on the CPU are amenable to load balancing.
     
    Bear in mind that not all glitches are caused by CPU exhaustion. If you find that no cores are maxed out regardless of the load-balancing option and there are still dropouts, that may indicate that the real problem is with a hardware interrupt handler.


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    chuckebaby
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 09:12:57 (permalink)
    in previous versions of Sonar, an FX bin would sometimes use all of the same Core.
    with load balancing, FX bins with multiple plug ins, each plug in is spread over the multicore vs. using only the first core, then over flowing to the next.
    I hope I explained this correctly, what im trying to say is..if you only have 1 FX per bin, you wont see a dramatic effect on Core usage.

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    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 09:53:27 (permalink)
    my cores used to be very balanced in many projects even before load balancing - because Sonar had multi-processor support before and when using similar plugins across many tracks

     sonar229030
     sonar229036
    It is one and the same project.
     
    if you only have 1 FX per bin, you wont see a dramatic effect on Core usage.


    post edited by Vyacheslav - 2016/10/10 10:43:54

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    pinguinotuerto
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 10:01:43 (permalink)
    If there's no change in performance when you adjust everything else, maybe your issues could be hard drive related? I can't see it very clearly on my phone, but you hard drive meter seems to be getting up there. Just a tought.

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    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 10:10:09 (permalink)
    Bear in mind that not all glitches are caused by CPU exhaustion. If you find that no cores are maxed out regardless of the load-balancing option and there are still dropouts, that may indicate that the real problem is with a hardware interrupt handler.

    Thank you, bitflipper. I understand it.
    post edited by Vyacheslav - 2016/10/10 10:32:39

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    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 10:16:01 (permalink)
    pinguinotuerto
    If there's no change in performance when you adjust everything else, maybe your issues could be hard drive related? I can't see it very clearly on my phone, but you hard drive meter seems to be getting up there. Just a tought.

    Thank you, pinguinotuerto. But the same glitches occurred with less filled disc.
    post edited by Vyacheslav - 2016/10/10 10:37:44

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 12:36:32 (permalink)
    Thanks for the animated screenshot, Vyacheslav. A picture is worth a thousand words.
     
    As you can see, load balancing really did spread the load across the cores, and the first core isn't nearly as busy in the "after" picture. However, even in the "before" picture, the first core is nowhere near maxing out.
     
    A CPU is either capable of handling the current demands or it isn't - it's not like a human, who benefits from a lighter workload even if he isn't being pushed to the limit. As long as the CPU can keep up, you'll experience no subjective difference between the before and after scenarios, which is exactly what you noted.


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    #20
    pinguinotuerto
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 12:55:07 (permalink)
    Vyacheslav
    pinguinotuerto
    If there's no change in performance when you adjust everything else, maybe your issues could be hard drive related? I can't see it very clearly on my phone, but you hard drive meter seems to be getting up there. Just a tought.

    Thank you, pinguinotuerto. But the same glitches occurred with less filled disc.

    Then more reson to investigate the drive. I noticed you're using sample based VSTis. Don't those require disc reading? Do you have them on the same drive as SONAR? Sorry but I'm on my phone so I can't see your system specs. It could also be an issue related to the graphics card + plugins and VSTis that have processor hungry GUIs.

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 13:56:42 (permalink)
    First things first: Clarify the symptoms. What does "glitches in projects" mean, exactly?
     
    If it means crackles/pops on playback, that could be due to high DPC Latency which will not show up in Perf Meters.
     
    You should check it with the free LatencyMon:
     
         http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
     
     

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    #22
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/10 15:33:12 (permalink)
    And how does your slave computer figure into your system?

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    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/11 02:20:25 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    And how does your slave computer figure into your system?

    This so-called server for Vienna Ensemble Pro5.
    brundlefly
    First things first: Clarify the symptoms. What does "glitches in projects" mean, exactly? If it means crackles/pops on playback, that could be due to high DPC Latency which will not show up in Perf Meters.

    Yes, this crackles/pops on playback. Infrequently, rarely.
    You should check it with the free LatencyMon: http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

    With this full order, with it all right.
    pinguinotuerto
    Vyacheslav
    pinguinotuerto
    If there's no change in performance when you adjust everything else, maybe your issues could be hard drive related? I can't see it very clearly on my phone, but you hard drive meter seems to be getting up there. Just a tought.

    Thank you, pinguinotuerto. But the same glitches occurred with less filled disc.

    Then more reson to investigate the drive.

     
    This CD is in perfect condition - Seagate Desktop SSHD ST2000DX001.
    I noticed you're using sample based VSTis. Don't those require disc reading? Do you have them on the same drive as SONAR? Sorry but I'm on my phone so I can't see your system specs.

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    Slave-computer: Asus P5B Premium | Quad Q6600 2.4GHz | 8Gb RAM | 5*HDDs 3.4Tb | Asus EAH4850 1Gb | ESI Julia + M-Audio FireWire Audiophile | UAD2 Solo/Laptop |
    Sonar Platinum(x32-x64), Vienna Ensemble Pro 5, Win7x64Ultimate, Yamaha Motif-Rack ES, Alesis Multimix 6FX, KRK RP5.
    It could also be an issue related to the graphics card + plugins and VSTis that have processor hungry GUIs.

    Thank you. I understand it. I am sure that is not the case.
     
     

    Sonar Platinum(x32-x64), Vienna Ensemble Pro 5, Win7x64Ultimate, Yamaha Motif-Rack ES, Alesis Multimix 6FX, KRK RP5.
    Host-computer: HP EliteBook 8770w | Core i7 3610QM | 2.3GHz | 24Gb RAM | SSD512+SSD1Tb+HDD2Tb+HDD2Tb eSATA| RME Fireface UCX | UAD-2 Satellite Quad |
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    #24
    brundlefly
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/11 12:55:13 (permalink)
    Vyacheslav
    brundlefly
    You should check it with the free LatencyMon: http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

    With this full order, with it all right.

     
    Sorry, I didn't understand that response. What do the numbers look like?
     
    Also, do you still have problem if you shut down the client component of the Vienna server system on your main DAW? I'm not familiar with this system, but it sounds like a rich source of potential problems that I would want to rule out first.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
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    #25
    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/12 06:40:42 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    Vyacheslav
    brundlefly
    You should check it with the free LatencyMon: http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

    With this full order, with it all right.

    Sorry, I didn't understand that response. What do the numbers look like?

     OK! It?


    Also, do you still have problem if you shut down the client component of the Vienna server system on your main DAW?

    Sometimes.
    I'm not familiar with this system, but it sounds like a rich source of potential problems that I would want to rule out first.

    Problems may be (or not may be) and with the Vienna Ensemble Pro and without it. )) But steady work of Vienna Ensemble Pro (as well as sonar) depends on the plug-in in it.
    post edited by Vyacheslav - 2016/10/12 08:16:36

    Sonar Platinum(x32-x64), Vienna Ensemble Pro 5, Win7x64Ultimate, Yamaha Motif-Rack ES, Alesis Multimix 6FX, KRK RP5.
    Host-computer: HP EliteBook 8770w | Core i7 3610QM | 2.3GHz | 24Gb RAM | SSD512+SSD1Tb+HDD2Tb+HDD2Tb eSATA| RME Fireface UCX | UAD-2 Satellite Quad |
    Slave-computer: Asus P5B Premium | Quad Q6600 2.4GHz | 8Gb RAM | 5*HDDs 3.4Tb | Asus EAH4850 1Gb | ESI Julia + M-Audio FireWire Audiophile | UAD2 Solo/Laptop |
    #26
    Bob Currie [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/14 17:22:38 (permalink)
    Hi Vyacheslav,
     
    I also rely heavily on Vienna Ensemble Pro in my setup.  I ran several tests today on the latest version of SONAR (22.9) and could find no performance hit from previous versions.  VEP is so lightweight - since it moves the heavy-lifting to the other server(s) - that it took a lot just to get it to register a few percent CPU load overall.  If you suspect that VEP is a problem with your SONAR performance can you try narrowing it down and post a project that I could try?  It'll be next to impossible to replicate your setup, but we might be able to pin down the issue if there is one.
    Thanks!
     
    ~Bob Currie [Cakewalk]
    #27
    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/15 02:28:42 (permalink)
    Bob Currie [Cakewalk]
    Hi Vyacheslav,
    I also rely heavily on Vienna Ensemble Pro in my setup.  I ran several tests today on the latest version of SONAR (22.9) and could find no performance hit from previous versions.  VEP is so lightweight - since it moves the heavy-lifting to the other server(s) - that it took a lot just to get it to register a few percent CPU load overall.  If you suspect that VEP is a problem with your SONAR performance can you try narrowing it down and post a project that I could try?  It'll be next to impossible to replicate your setup, but we might be able to pin down the issue if there is one.
    Thanks!
     ~Bob Currie [Cakewalk]

    Thanks, Bob! I did not say that I have a drop in performance occurs when using the Vienna Ensemble Pro. I said that with the new update (22.9.0.36-41) increase in performance did not happen.

    Sonar Platinum(x32-x64), Vienna Ensemble Pro 5, Win7x64Ultimate, Yamaha Motif-Rack ES, Alesis Multimix 6FX, KRK RP5.
    Host-computer: HP EliteBook 8770w | Core i7 3610QM | 2.3GHz | 24Gb RAM | SSD512+SSD1Tb+HDD2Tb+HDD2Tb eSATA| RME Fireface UCX | UAD-2 Satellite Quad |
    Slave-computer: Asus P5B Premium | Quad Q6600 2.4GHz | 8Gb RAM | 5*HDDs 3.4Tb | Asus EAH4850 1Gb | ESI Julia + M-Audio FireWire Audiophile | UAD2 Solo/Laptop |
    #28
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
    Cakewalk Staff
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/15 23:18:49 (permalink)
    If so that probably indicates that your glitches are not CPU load related but caused by something else.

    Noel Borthwick
    Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
    My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
    #29
    Vyacheslav
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    Re: Why with the update 22.9.0.36 did not improve performance? 2016/10/16 02:17:26 (permalink)
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
    If so that probably indicates that your glitches are not CPU load related but caused by something else.

    May be. As like as not. Like enough. )) Forgive me for my english. )

    Sonar Platinum(x32-x64), Vienna Ensemble Pro 5, Win7x64Ultimate, Yamaha Motif-Rack ES, Alesis Multimix 6FX, KRK RP5.
    Host-computer: HP EliteBook 8770w | Core i7 3610QM | 2.3GHz | 24Gb RAM | SSD512+SSD1Tb+HDD2Tb+HDD2Tb eSATA| RME Fireface UCX | UAD-2 Satellite Quad |
    Slave-computer: Asus P5B Premium | Quad Q6600 2.4GHz | 8Gb RAM | 5*HDDs 3.4Tb | Asus EAH4850 1Gb | ESI Julia + M-Audio FireWire Audiophile | UAD2 Solo/Laptop |
    #30
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