Cactus Music
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BobF
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/11 21:49:45
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Let's write a version we think would actually be helpful.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/12 10:37:12
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Products that have well thought out, clear, informative instructions will always get a big thumbs up from consumers. Yamaha once wrote such a great manual for one of it's mixers that everybody wanted a copy, even if they didn't own a Yamaha mixer. It became the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook https://www.amazon.ca/Sound-Reinforcement-Handbook-Gary-Davis/dp/0881889008 a bible for sound engineers around the world. Having us write the manual Bob, is the opposite of what should happen. Good manual writers are probably hard to come by. You need both understanding of the product and awesome writing skills. But they could certainly do better than what we have. Or at least make it easy to find. I gave up looking for the tool editor the other day. Luckily someone re posted the link on the forum.
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Anderton
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/12 13:25:39
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Agreed that the basics need to be clearer, but of course there's a lot more than basics involved. Doing complete documentation for a DAW is a major undertaking for companies. I think you'll find that by and large, the best manuals are ones where the manufacturer hired someone to do them. With a couple other companies, I suggested a Wiki-style crowdsourced manual where the manufacturer would have an editor. My premise was that the time required to edit would be less than the time required to write. It was never tried, and probably has issues I didn't foresee, but with a program like SONAR there are so many nooks, crannies, and applications I feel it's too much for any one person to handle.
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JonD
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/12 14:51:21
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Cactus Music Products that have well thought out, clear, informative instructions will always get a big thumbs up from consumers. Yamaha once wrote such a great manual for one of it's mixers that everybody wanted a copy, even if they didn't own a Yamaha mixer. It became the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook https://www.amazon.ca/Sound-Reinforcement-Handbook-Gary-Davis/dp/0881889008 a bible for sound engineers around the world. I used to recommend the user manual for the old Mackie 8-bus console to recording newbs. A real hoot to read, and without your realizing it, you were picking up solid recording/mixer signal path knowledge. In fact, all of Mackie's manuals were irreverently entertaining in that way. (I haven't read any recently, though I think those original writers are long gone from Mackie).
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/12 23:38:30
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Yes Mackie wrote some down home, fun to read manuals, I'm not so sure they still do.. Thanks for you thoughts Craig, you came to mind when I was thinking of someone who can actually write.. you do get long winded however :) just kidding.. you obviously type fast, like Beep. It's the basic starting out part I think needs some down to earth in your face , logical , straight up, plain talking updating. The first paragraph: Thank you for purchasing Sonar and welcome to the endless creative possibilities now in your life. But before you even open Sonar you will need to consider your hardware first. Please follow the instructions for optimising your computer for audio. You will also need an Audio Interface for optimum performance. Example a nice new Tascam us 2x2. Please don't complain to us if your trying to use on board audio codex or an old outdated system. etc etc...
post edited by Cactus Music - 2016/10/13 18:53:08
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/13 00:16:21
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Anderton With a couple other companies, I suggested a Wiki-style crowdsourced manual where the manufacturer would have an editor. My premise was that the time required to edit would be less than the time required to write.
Having done a lot of technical writing (and final editing of co-worker writing), I don't believe this. Time to edit can easily exceed time required to write from scratch if approach, styles, etc don't match, writing is too wordy and not to the point (very often the case) Writing manuals is an expensive tasks and actually there are not too many people out there who can do that properly. BTW, the same applies to books you can buy i.e. being a knowledgeable engineer does not make you a writer yet. I just recently threw a (relatively) renowned technical book into the trash because it was too wordy, not to the point and not informative enough where it should have been... Videos seem to be todays solution to everything, but I don't believe in the lasting value of that, either. They get outdated as quickly as manuals but don't allow for incremental updates. (plus I personally hate to sit through a video to hear about something that text search could have revealed in seconds) The safest bet for software development is to design intuitive GUIs that don't require much explanation ...
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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chuckebaby
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/13 08:27:22
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Rob[atSound-Rehab] The safest bet for software development is to design intuitive GUIs that don't require much explanation ...
While I agree with this sentiment, it's easier said than done. The deeper our tools become, the steeper the learning curve. There is no real way around this. I do share your thoughts on text and I agree that while video may seem like the tool of the future, it still doesn't capture what reading can (its ease of search functions). However with the increasing use of You Tube, video is over powering text now a day. And there are some things that simply cant be explained in text as can in video (seeing is believing). Back to the OP's original post, I would like to see future enhancements to the Help files. the E-zine is key for me with new Sonar features. I would also like to see a more productive way to download the help files through command center. Downloading a 500+GB file for just a few updates is preposterous.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/13 15:06:30
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Having a Learning Assistant Teacher for a Daughter and long talks about the subject of how we are all different when it comes to learning. ( there's a hanging sentence for you editors) Anyhow this is the reason we should not limit teaching resources available to the new user to any one format. I found this so true when teaching guitar. With some students it was a waste of time to write anything down on paper. They needed me to "show them how" This is where the video format now available shine. Myself I have never watched more than 2 minutes of any of these videos. I find them slow and I don't have time to sit there watching them. The people who make them seem to be poor communicators and dull as a brick. So videos are a pour choice for me. I can scan documentation and modern PDF files to quickly find the one paragraph I need. But it's disappointing to find that spot in the document and it's poorly written and does not contain the whole story. I agree with Rob- make the software obviously helpful using well thought out GUI. Little pop up balloons that give brief instructions or link to further reading ( or videos) I realize it's added expense to producing a product, but myself think it is money well spent if you want to win over new clients. Producing the most amazing DAW on the planet will not get you far if no one can figure out how it works.
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John
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/13 15:39:53
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CW implemented the Help Module in 2016.03 update. I have it open on my system. Does anyone else use it? As far as the PDF manual is concerned, I am very much in favor of it being updated as soon as possible. I use it often. I also consider it the "Bible" for Sonar. Much of the help I offer on this forum is based on providing excerpts from it. At present it is woefully out of date. Its CW's fault due to their rapid and constant improvements.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/13 15:51:23
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I also think the help module is very helpful myself.
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Klaus
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/13 16:27:57
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I certainly prefer a dedicated module like the current Help Module over pop up balloons, less distracting for me (sometimes I switch off showing "Tool Tips", too). Since the Reference Manual.pdf has not been updated, I prefer and like the SONAR.chm Helpfile, which is up to date and really well written in my opinion (and the German translation is excellent!) A link of it on my desktop makes it easy available even when SONAR is not running. But have to agree with the OP, the mentioned Audio-Setup-Checklist could be improved.
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Thedoccal
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/13 16:31:26
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I have used the Help Module too and it is the first thing I use to identify what things are and what is associated with them. I use the Help Documentation occasionally, but I use this forum and Google as my Main Manual for Everything. This forum is a "Live and Dynamic" Sonar Manual that has replaced the books. Google search gives me answers about my computer, which has mostly been the culprit whenever I have had issues. Granted, issues are unsettling. They can go on for days weeks and even months. Every problem I've ever had was solved by the "Forum Manual"...as long as I was patient, and explained the problems properly. That is the hardest part. Me getting my issues typed out cohesively, with enough information to make a start. Cakewalk has done it's job. My job is to get my computer and third party drivers to do their job too.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/13 18:59:38
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Of course you don't want the pop up balloons once you've figured things out. Those are easily toggled on and off. And I'm not so much saying the whole manual is badly done, no, It's just the information for newbies that is sadly un-helpful.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar needs help with their Help
2016/10/14 01:20:23
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John CW implemented the Help Module in 2016.03 update. I have it open on my system. Does anyone else use it?
yes I do. and I find it quite helpful and non-intrusive ... and although I consider myself a "power-user" I still learn some tricks and shortcuts from it.
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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