Helpful ReplyFinalising an Album's listening levels.

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AdrianNewington
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2016/10/17 22:39:22 (permalink)

Finalising an Album's listening levels.

Hi,
I'd like to hear of people's technique for setting a constant apparent volume all the finished tracks of an album, so that the listener can set a comfortable listening level Once, and then sit back and relax and enjoy the album.

It's a pain when subsequent tracks are too loud or soft... especially these days when a lot of music is heard through headphones or ear buds.

Normalising doesn't really do the job, and I was investigating setting a common value of Peak & Average RMS, but I'm still exploring this.

Can I hear about your technique please?

Regards,
Adrian.

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Finalising an Album's listening levels. 2016/10/18 00:30:13 (permalink)
    If you're making a CD, create a new SONAR project and import all the files into it, all on one track. This makes it easy to jump back and forth between clips to compare volume. You have to do it by ear, there is no objective way. Make sure you're comparing quiet parts to quiet parts and loud parts to loud parts. A volume envelope can be used to make small adjustments.
     


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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Finalising an Album's listening levels. 2016/10/18 01:26:48 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/10/18 11:04:06
    These are my ideas in the area of mastering and I have found this procedure works pretty well and seems to be consistent. There is a more technical way to do it that is a little more accurate than the ear.  In all the mastering sessions I have been lucky enough to sit in on with great mastering engineers they all used the VU this way. You need exceptional ears to pick 1 dB or less change but on a VU it is very obvious.
     
    After mastering you run a VU meter over all the tracks.  The VU needs to be calibrated so that the loudest parts of each track should just reach 0 dB VU.  With mastering involved  if you have shot for say a -12 dB FS rms master then -12 dB FS = 0 dB VU.
     
    All you have to do is ensure that the loudest parts of each track just hover around 0 dB VU.  If they are still swinging wildly then you have not done enough to tame dynamics and control the loudest peaks well enough. Once you do the loud bits should just hit and hover up to 0 dB VU.  If a track is loud all the way through then the whole track should be just hitting 0 dB VU nicely.
     
    Now all you do is for the quiet tracks eg acoustic things like voice and guitar/piano etc just ensure they only reach about -2 to -3dB.  If you run those tracks up to 0 dB VU then they will sound louder than the band tracks and that is not a good situation.  Keeping them a few dB lower ensures all the tracks in the end will sound a similar volume but the band tracks will just kick in a little harder like they should.  Once you have done this then use your ears to fine tune.  Dont start by trying to set levels with ears.  You will be chasing your tail more than likely.
     
    Real VU's are best for this type of work but the next best thing is a decent VU VST such as the Klanghelm meter or the PSP Triple meter.  The Sonar rms indicators are not much help in this type of situation.  You need something to show full scale eg 0 dB VU at your mastered reference. Then you can see small changes much more easily.
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2016/10/18 15:08:20

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    jamesg1213
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    Re: Finalising an Album's listening levels. 2016/10/18 07:55:33 (permalink)
    bitflipper
    If you're making a CD, create a new SONAR project and import all the files into it, all on one track. This makes it easy to jump back and forth between clips to compare volume. You have to do it by ear, there is no objective way. Make sure you're comparing quiet parts to quiet parts and loud parts to loud parts. A volume envelope can be used to make small adjustments.
     




    That's how I've done it in the past, works well. I used clip gain to adjust the volume of each song/track. Easy with all the songs on one track to slide them around and get the track gaps right too, then add markers between tracks, bounce the whole lot to one clip then split at the markers.

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



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    batsbrew
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    Re: Finalising an Album's listening levels. 2016/10/18 10:55:43 (permalink)
    this is called 'mastering'.
     
    it's best to let someone else that has those skills, apply the finishing touches to your best final mixes.
     
    it takes years to get good at this.
    years.
     i've been doing it for almost 11 years now, and i still suck.
     
    point is, if you want to do it yourself,
    start by study.
     
    here's as good a place to start as any in existence:
     
    Mastering Audio: The Art and the Science
     
    https://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Audio-Science-Bob-Katz/dp/0240808371
     
     
    another must-study:
    The Mastering Engineer's Handbook: The Audio Mastering Handbook
     
    https://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Engineers-Handbook-Audio/dp/1598634496
     
     
     after you get the basics down,
    you MUST get your monitors and room up to snuff,
    otherwise,
    you're just guessing at how your mixes will translate.
     
    so many decisions can be SUBJECTIVE, but too much hi, or low, or harsh middle, and any other spectral imbalance,
    is NOT a subjective choice, it is a mistake.
     
     
    but be aware, 
    there is a push to get rid of the typical 'hit the ceiling with level' of modern mastering,
    and a lot of 'players' have automatically-leveling functions built into them,
     
    but when you are talking about the 'art' of completing a finished album of songs,
    and how they all work together,
     
    that's called 'mastering'.
     
     
     
     
     

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Finalising an Album's listening levels. 2016/10/18 15:07:20 (permalink)
    Mastering is about processing say a track to get it sounding great but it also takes in the whole concept of getting 12 or 15 tracks to work together rather seamlessly.  And that can be quite time consuming.
     
    The track order is pretty essential as well.  The artist will often have an idea but sometimes the mastering engineer may suggest an alternate order.  It is good to burn CD's of different orders and live with them for a while.  On the train, in the car, at a dinner party in the background.  It is amazing what you hear when you are not actually directly engaged in listening to something like an entire CD.  If something pops out and draws your attention it often means it needs fixing. 
     
    Even the amount of silence between tracks can require some thought and it does not always transpire the same time between every track.  When tracks fade out they need less time to the next.  Snappy endings need a little longer.  How the next one actually starts is also important.
     
    Things to consider are instrumentation from track to track.  Where is your biggest track going to be? Keys and feels and tempos need to be mixed up a bit rather than have 3 songs all similar in a row etc..Then there is the drama of the whole album story, song by song.  Start small, (or big) raise up, lower down, ease off, build again to a big climax etc..
     
    Sometimes you do alter the VU level from 0 dB VU though.  For example you might just tame an ending a little and automate it down by 3 db over the ending time because the start of the next track is so quiet etc.. I have also pushed the very loudest part of a CD  (and you need to know where that is by the way)  by 1 or 2 dB just for some added excitement.
     

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    jamesg1213
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    Re: Finalising an Album's listening levels. 2016/10/18 15:18:16 (permalink)
    Jeff Evans
     
     
    Even the amount of silence between tracks can require some thought and it does not always transpire the same time between every track.  When tracks fade out they need less time to the next.  Snappy endings need a little longer.  How the next one actually starts is also important.
     
    Things to consider are instrumentation from track to track.  Where is your biggest track going to be? Keys and feels and tempos need to be mixed up a bit rather than have 3 songs all similar in a row etc..Then there is the drama of the whole album story, song by song.  Start small, (or big) raise up, lower down, ease off, build again to a big climax etc..
     
     
     




    Absolutely, and in the few 'albums' I've produced, this has been one of most pleasurable parts of the process.

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



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