Steve_Karl
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Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
Hi there,
Running Win7 Pro on an i7 2600K with splat .08 - 16gb of ram.
I've had hyperthreading disabled on this PC because I have an old XP partition with GigaStudio3 on it and GS didn't play well with hyper threading. Now that I'm not using GS3 anymore I'm wondering if there's any perk to enabling hyper threading?
Somewhat typical usage for me is running 4 to 5 instances of Kontakt and sometimes Omnisphere 2.
I'm not seeing any performance issues with it off but it might be nice to get a tiny bit more headroom if possible.
Thanks!
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jimkleban
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/24 20:58:20
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I believe that with Sonar, enabling hyper threading on your RIG will in essence give you twice the horse power. Definitely worth trying to see.
I have a 6 core machine with hyper threading enabled which gives me 12 threads.... my system pretty much screams. No issues with CPU juice. I run many instances of KONTAKT without any issues and a ton of UAD and native plugins with my projects.
I have since gone to 96K projects without to much increased load on my processors. The latest version of SPLAT has spread the CPU load more evenly over available threads and seems to have made the system even better.
Can't hurt to try.
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/24 21:00:18
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thanks jimkleban
I'll give it a try.
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mudgel
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/25 03:09:39
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☄ Helpfulby chuckebaby 2016/10/25 08:31:02
the number of threads is secondary to the processor clock speed. I've read Jim Roseberry having said that many times.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/25 08:32:17
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mudgel
the number of threads is secondary to the processor clock speed. I've read Jim Roseberry having said that many times.
This is also what I've heard (from Jim as well) .It also helped me choose the CPU im using now.
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jimkleban
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/25 10:45:36
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I too have heard that processor speed is important but if you already have a processor that supports multi threading, are you sure it is wise to turn it off. Seems to me, unless turning it off increases the CPU speed, it would make sense to turn hyper threading on, no? Especially since CAKEWALK has refined and evolved the multi thread processing so well?
Just asking,
Jim
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/25 10:59:41
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jimkleban
I too have heard that processor speed is important but if you already have a processor that supports multi threading, are you sure it is wise to turn it off. Seems to me, unless turning it off increases the CPU speed, it would make sense to turn hyper threading on, no? Especially since CAKEWALK has refined and evolved the multi thread processing so well?
Just asking,
Jim
good question
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abacab
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/25 11:57:37
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☄ Helpfulby Steve_Karl 2016/10/25 12:00:43
Steve_Karl
jimkleban
I too have heard that processor speed is important but if you already have a processor that supports multi threading, are you sure it is wise to turn it off. Seems to me, unless turning it off increases the CPU speed, it would make sense to turn hyper threading on, no? Especially since CAKEWALK has refined and evolved the multi thread processing so well?
Just asking,
Jim
good question
My understanding is that a thread can only run on one core at a time, thus performance is limited to the clock speed of an individual core. You can't run any faster than the CPU frequency of one core. Oversimplification: Enabling multi threading lets the processor take advantage of scheduling an additional thread to run on a core, creating a virtual second core, that can execute during the brief moments when the pipeline is waiting for something to do. It makes more efficient use of the available CPU cycles. A thread isn't always 100% busy in the CPU, it sometimes has to wait on read/writes from RAM or disk, etc. A quad-core without hyper-threading would perform slightly slower under average use than a quad core with eight virtual cores enabled via hyper-threading. My opinion, is turn it on. Sonar has supported multi-threading, multi-core for many versions now, and they keep improving it. For example, with the recent plug-in load leveling. Ultimately it is up to the application to be multi-thread aware, and to intelligently break it's workload down into multiple threads to take advantage of the hardware capabilities. That is why you can see old applications suck one core dry sometimes.
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vdd
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/25 14:05:32
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I disabled multi-threading. Here is why:
Like the OP pointed out, there is just a virtual second instance of the core. the idea is to provide work for the cpu, even when a thread is waiting for e.g. the disk i.o.
Using a DAW there is not the problem to provide enough load to a cpu, the main issue is to finish a task before the buffer runs dry.
Additional (virtualized) cores creates additional administrative work for the shedulers, but you will not get more "bang" from the cpu. It is just easier to max out each core. If the throughput is prio 1 then this strategy is great. If the response time of the system is prio 1, then it is not.
Since I disabled multithreading, the count of drop outs and glitches was down in a significant amount (with my old interface).
Just try it. I am sure, that the administrative overhead for the cpu, the OS and SONAR have negative impact. If you observe bad core utilization, use multi-threading again...
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eikelbijter
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/25 15:22:28
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/10/26 15:08:13
So much fail in these responses......WOW!
First of all, while it is true that a 4GHz single core would outperform a 2GHz dual core, in a modern OS with a modern application like Sonar, multi-threading works quite efficiently, especially in inherently parallel tasks like a multi-track DAW.
What happens with HYPER-threading is that the CPU is allowed to process two thread on 1 core, using different parts of its pipeline at the same time (think Floating Point versus Integer). It certainly doesn't double the performance of a core, but can lead to 20% more throughput. There IS more scheduling overhead, but not very much and the performance increase in highly mixed workloads is noticeable. For instance, the screen rendering parts of Sonar are very much integer tasks, while calculating plugin processing is highly Floating Point based.
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jimkleban
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/26 12:31:15
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I guess that is the bottom line with so many variables of our systems.... try it both ways and see what works best for you?
Jim
PS - which was the crux of my original advice to the OP
The Lamb Laid Down on MIDI www.lldom.com Studio Cat Custom i7 with Thunderbolt (wonderful system built and configured by our own Jim R) Apollo Duo (via TB) UAD Quad UAD Duo WIN 8.1 x64 with 32 GB Ram 4 SSD for programs and sample libraries Splat (latest version)
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abacab
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/26 12:44:04
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eikelbijter
So much fail in these responses......WOW!
First of all, while it is true that a 4GHz single core would outperform a 2GHz dual core, in a modern OS with a modern application like Sonar, multi-threading works quite efficiently, especially in inherently parallel tasks like a multi-track DAW.
What happens with HYPER-threading is that the CPU is allowed to process two thread on 1 core, using different parts of its pipeline at the same time (think Floating Point versus Integer). It certainly doesn't double the performance of a core, but can lead to 20% more throughput. There IS more scheduling overhead, but not very much and the performance increase in highly mixed workloads is noticeable. For instance, the screen rendering parts of Sonar are very much integer tasks, while calculating plugin processing is highly Floating Point based.
I guess you did not bother to read them all of the responses. My advice was to turn it on 
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eikelbijter
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/26 13:33:06
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abacab
eikelbijter
So much fail in these responses......WOW!
First of all, while it is true that a 4GHz single core would outperform a 2GHz dual core, in a modern OS with a modern application like Sonar, multi-threading works quite efficiently, especially in inherently parallel tasks like a multi-track DAW.
What happens with HYPER-threading is that the CPU is allowed to process two thread on 1 core, using different parts of its pipeline at the same time (think Floating Point versus Integer). It certainly doesn't double the performance of a core, but can lead to 20% more throughput. There IS more scheduling overhead, but not very much and the performance increase in highly mixed workloads is noticeable. For instance, the screen rendering parts of Sonar are very much integer tasks, while calculating plugin processing is highly Floating Point based.
I guess you did not bother to read them all of the responses. My advice was to turn it on
Did I say there was nothing but fail?
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tlw
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/26 15:18:18
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☄ Helpfulby Steve_Karl 2016/10/26 15:24:18
Intel reckon there's at least a 30% cpu throughput increase with hyperthreading. It certainly won't slow down any core to less than it's rated speed.
What hyperthreading does is improve multi-tasking, and with a modern operating system or DAW even if you are only using one application there is still a lot of multi-tasking going on 'behind the scenes' as a look at the processes list would tell you.
It makes better use of less than fully-laden cpu cores so shifts things through the cpu faster, simple as that. It won't necessarily save you from running out of resources, any system can be pushed to the point it can't keep up, but it helps to make that point further away and keep things running more smoothly by optimising core usage.
And if for some reason it slows down your PC, then turn it off again. Personally I find things work better in terms of total cpu load with hyperthreading enabled, but there's so much variation in Windows PCs that may not be true for all.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/26 15:43:47
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HT was not recommended in XP. Usually Intel is far ahead in tech than a Windows OS. I had a P4 Prescott that had it. I would use it in W7 and above.
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/27 09:52:45
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SergeQ
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Re: Any benefit to enabling hyper threading?
2016/10/27 15:30:01
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