chamlin
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MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
Are there "tapping pads" to use as MIDI drum input devices? When I've done drum inputting on a keyboard I'm just too stiff. But I can really groove using my fingers and hands (not drum sticks) on a steering wheel. :) Does that exist?
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The Grim
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 12, 16 8:29 PM
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☄ Helpfulby chamlin November 12, 16 8:30 PM
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chamlin
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 12, 16 8:31 PM
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Cool. Checking them out now!
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chamlin
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 12, 16 9:58 PM
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Korg padKONTROL looks simple, inexpensive, and good for finger drumming. Thanks! Anyone use this little guy with finger drumming?
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chuckebaby
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 12, 16 10:36 PM
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☄ Helpfulby chamlin November 12, 16 10:48 PM
I made this video 3 years ago but it still pertains today just as well as did then. Get yourself a drum machine on the cheap like the Alesis SR 16 (about 50 bucks used) The big thing is, Sonar has drum maps for most drum machines out there, making it simple to just GO ! where as something like the Nano pad is more of a controller based hardware so you would need to assign the pads and create drum maps. The video below shows how to set it up and how the pads are triggered by your fingers.
However, with all this said, I still find using the Piano Roll View to edit drums the best possible way. because you can do detailed work vs. playing the pads then having to go back anyway and fine tune edit it. With time comes experience. it used to take me days to program drums in the Piano Roll. But now a day, I can whack out a song with velocity changes in under a 1/2 hour easy. speed comes with time. I also made a video for editing Drums in the Piano Roll View.
These are not "Ground breaking", Great videos by any means but they do give you a better understanding of how to edit drums in Sonar.
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chamlin
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 12, 16 10:55 PM
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Hey Chuck, that's a great tutorial. Thanks!
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MarioD
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 13, 16 9:09 AM
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Akai makes some very good drumming pads. I have the AKAI MPD 18 which is the earlier version of the MPD 218. But regardless of what drum pad you get the key is practice. You must treat a drum pad like the new instrument that you have to master. You are not going to play one like you do your steering wheel until you practice, practice, practice!
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chamlin
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 13, 16 12:07 AM
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Thanks, Mario, that's horribly sobering!  I always appreciate guidance that is positive and supportive (practice can lead to mastery) and grounded in reality (I'm only so good on my steering wheel because I've been practicing on it for decades! In addition to Chuck's idea above, the device that seems simplest to set up is the Korg padKONTROL. The AKAI units look good too but may be more than I need. May...
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mettelus
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 13, 16 12:31 AM
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☄ Helpfulby chamlin November 13, 16 12:37 AM
A "non-conventional" suggestion to bear in mind is that with Drum Replacer/Melodyne and a microphone you have exactly what you want now. The MIDI input is moot (unless you want it, but 16 pad controllers do not lend themselves to ergonomics IMO, same as a keyboard). Let me explain... You can tap on a surface (any surface), and only need a pitch difference to make Drum Replacer/Melodyne detect it. The microphone must be rigidly mounted, and not on the surface you are playing on so that you do not get the bump from the microphone shake (same as real drums). Be creative, but pitch difference is all you need (from tapping glass to wood, or even putting thimbles on select fingers...) Once you have an audio track without "mic thumps"... in Drum Replacer, you can fine-tune in on one, and replace with the appropriate drum/sample (i.e., it converts the audio you choose to MIDI notes, then replaces them with the samples you choose). Similarly, Melodyne will convert audio->MIDI, so you can use that to drive a VST drum set. With fingers, this can have some limitations on number of drums per track (kick/snare track, then a toms track, etc. and I *believe* Drum Replacer is still limited to 3 drums per instance anyway, but not sure), but really boils down to what is easiest for you and that definite pitch differences exist... I have seen street drummers beating on plastic buckets with real sticks, and a 5-gallon one being sat on "cajon style" so they could rock on it to change the pitch... ironically, some of those audio recordings could easily be converted to MIDI to drive a VST and converted to "conventional drums." Bottom line... microphone, a pitch difference, and whatever setup you like ergonomically... then the tools we already have available. [just don't beat on anything glass with real sticks... but pots and pans are okay as long as the wife doesn't catch you!]
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chuckebaby
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 13, 16 12:32 AM
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I also have an Akai. AN MPD 26. Works great. it also has built in presets for Sonar, Reaper, Pro tools, exc. but I still prefer the drum machine because when I use Sonar for Drum triggering, it comes with over 200 Maps. those maps include many drum machines. who knows maybe the korg is in there as well. I don't think so though. What ever your choice... best of luck with it man.
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chamlin
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 13, 16 12:45 AM
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Thanks, Michael, for the "unconventional" idea too. Though not a "real" drummer, my fingers are always drumming. And regardless of which path I go down, what's clear is that I will need to differentiate my finger hits. On my fingers, the drums are all blended, more for feel. Sure, they're differentiated by velocity or tone, but not in a consistent, organized manner. My hand knows when the kick or snare are to play, but any finger available on either hand will do depending on the moment. Time to experiment! Chuck, yeah, I'm going to check in Sonar, and also am still considering the actual drum units. :)
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chuckebaby
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 13, 16 1:05 PM
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I have both a real kit and electronic drums (A Roland TD4 / V drums) I opt for real drums when ever possible. there is something about the dynamics of a real kit that can never and will never be captured by any sample out there. When micing a real kit, you have bleed from other kit pieces that adds to a more than life feel. Not even the best samples in the world which most will argue: "These Samples were recorded on a Neve console using telefunken mic's on John Bonham's kit !" well guess what...no matter how hard you try, they will always sound mechanical. the E kits come close, but they still have years (like possibly 20) before they ever sound and FEEL like a real kit. because when you hit Metal (a cymbal) or a real drum head, the bounce back and feel is totally different. as is the machine gun effect on fast snare rolls, on fast tempo songs. Peace man.
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mettelus
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 13, 16 1:36 PM
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No worries... in all honesty, once you actually monitor yourself for what hits where you suddenly adapt accordingly (like working kick/snare only at first). I doubt that would be an issue at all. I tend to finger/foot tap a lot myself when driving but tap the gear shifter... pinky is kick, thumb is snare, and the 3 toms. For kick/snare you can also use feet easily, say one barefoot (kick), and one with a leather soled shoe (snare) on a wooden floor. A chair with feet you can put your heels on will actually use the same ankle motion for real drums (heels fixed, and tapping the balls of your feet). Sticks are cheap too, so you can also play with that as well. An aside that is sort of funny... this kid likes to use Arduino for MIDI routing, and does a lot of neat stuff. Happened across him one day as the followup video to something else I watched, but he converted a Guitar Hero drum kit ($20) to fire off into his DAW. He is quite innovative with how he approaches things.
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57Gregy
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 13, 16 11:46 PM
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I recently bought a Yamaha DD-65. It's compact, has 8 pads plus kick and hat pedals. It also has a 'hand drum' setting for folks who don't want to use sticks. I have fun playing it. $219 at GC.
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BobF
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 14, 16 10:03 AM
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chuckebaby I also have an Akai. AN MPD 26. Works great. it also has built in presets for Sonar, Reaper, Pro tools, exc. but I still prefer the drum machine because when I use Sonar for Drum triggering, it comes with over 200 Maps. those maps include many drum machines. who knows maybe the korg is in there as well. I don't think so though. What ever your choice... best of luck with it man.
I also have an MPD26 that I picked up for playing drums. I find the pad sensitivity too low - seems like I have to whack the heck out of them. So mine is collecting dust. I've gotten used to using a regular keyboard/controller because the velocity curve is much sweeter. I still don't do drums manually as much as I thought I would. EZD and AD are just soooooo easy
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chuckebaby
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 14, 16 3:19 PM
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BobF
chuckebaby I also have an Akai. AN MPD 26. Works great. it also has built in presets for Sonar, Reaper, Pro tools, exc. but I still prefer the drum machine because when I use Sonar for Drum triggering, it comes with over 200 Maps. those maps include many drum machines. who knows maybe the korg is in there as well. I don't think so though. What ever your choice... best of luck with it man.
I also have an MPD26 that I picked up for playing drums. I find the pad sensitivity too low - seems like I have to whack the heck out of them. So mine is collecting dust. I've gotten used to using a regular keyboard/controller because the velocity curve is much sweeter. I still don't do drums manually as much as I thought I would. EZD and AD are just soooooo easy 
Yup, your right. you can set the velocity layers in settings (on the MPD's settings that is). I had the same problem with the default settings. If im doing any hand taping, typically I will set a fixed velocity (Example:110) then make adjustments later. I used to use Midi loops a lot, but I never use loops anymore, I create all beats in PRV until im ready to track it with the real drums.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: MIDI "Non-Drummer" Drum Input Device for Sonar
November 16, 16 3:03 AM
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chamlin Are there "tapping pads" to use as MIDI drum input devices? When I've done drum inputting on a keyboard I'm just too stiff. But I can really groove using my fingers and hands (not drum sticks) on a steering wheel. :) Does that exist?
don't know your budget but have a look at the Nord Drum 3 http://www.nordkeyboards.com/products/nord-drum-3p you could play it with hands or sticks. I use the predecessor and it's got super nice dynamics plus a good drum synth engine for a very reasonable price (for what you get). even if you are not a drummer, picking up a pair of sticks and play with those will get you a long way quickly (and it's fun!!!) ... and much better than any hand pad controller can every give you
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