FX Bin? Bypassed fx still color sound?

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SuprMelO
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2016/11/12 13:23:51 (permalink)

FX Bin? Bypassed fx still color sound?

Hope y'all can help me out here. I'm on Sonar X3 Producer.
 
So I ran into this problem when trying to do some parallel processing. Ok so let's say I have a track, for example a snare output from Addictive Drums 2. And I clone the track to make an exact copy. Great so now I just have a louder snare sound. Ok then on the second snare track I add an FX, like a compressor. If I add the compressor and change the compressor settings during the same playback, it gets the sound I want. However, the next playback, that second track sounds washed out or phased out somehow. Then I bypass the compressor on that track, and it still sounds washed out but just not compressed. So then I bypass the FX on the second track, it still sounds different. The weird thing is if any bypassed FX is in the bin, it still gives it that washed out sound, it doesn't matter what FX it is. But if I delete all the FX from the bin, it goes back to sounding like an exact copy of the original track. Also if I click the global bypass FX, the cloned track also sounds just like the original then. So the problem is whenever there's an FX in the bin whether bypassed or not, it's coloring the sound. Prochannel FX work pretty much the same way. If the Prochannel is "on" it colors the sound even if all the modules are bypassed.
 
Here's a .wav so you can hear what I'm talking about:

 
What you hear:
A: 4 snare hits from a track with no FX
B: then 4 hits from 2 tracks with no FX (so it's just a little louder, great)
C: then 4 hits from 1 track with no FX and 1 track with a bypassed FX in the bin (sounds weird and phasey? esp at the tails)
 
Like I said it doesn't matter what FX is in the bin, and turning off FX globally fixes it so B and C sound the same. I've tried messing with reversing the phase and doing mono/stereo switchiing but nothing seems to work.
 
Any help is appreciated. Thanks
#1

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    SuprMelO
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    Re: FX Bin? Bypassed fx still color sound? 2016/11/12 13:25:56 (permalink)
    There was supposed to be a dropbox link so you can hear what I'm talking about but I guess the spam filter caught it. PM and I'll send the link until I can post links.
     
    edit: in the meantime if you go to dl.dropbox.com and slap /u/11938833/snarehits.wav at the end of that url it should work
    #2
    chuckebaby
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    Re: FX Bin? Bypassed fx still color sound? 2016/11/12 13:33:50 (permalink)
    you need to have 25 posts before you can add links.
    anyway, is it possible what you are hearing is the FX from the addictive drums plug in ??
    by passing FX using the FX button wont bypass a midi plug ins FX like AD drums.

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    #3
    SuprMelO
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    Re: FX Bin? Bypassed fx still color sound? 2016/11/12 15:02:04 (permalink)
    chuckbaby: Just tried on a guitar track  and a vocal track and get slightly different behavior. So if I clone either of those type tracks, and add a plugin it's fine. However if during playback I bypass the plugin it sounds weird again when the clone is playing right with the original. The next playback it will then sound normal and bypassed properly.
     
    Also wanted to note that I tried sends to a bus for the drums and was getting the same kind of behavior mentioned before.
    #4
    SuprMelO
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    Re: FX Bin? Bypassed fx still color sound? 2016/11/13 00:33:38 (permalink)
    Dumb workaround for now: putting a bypassed plugin on the orignal track, seems to then cause the two to get back in "phase" or whatever, still if anyone has a more better solution...
    #5
    bitflipper
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    Re: FX Bin? Bypassed fx still color sound? 2016/11/13 08:56:46 (permalink)
    Sounds like a phase issue, perhaps caused by unreported latency in the compressor that SONAR's PDC cannot compensate for. When you add the plugin to the original track you're "fixing" the problem by delaying it by the same amount as the cloned track.
     
    Using a different compressor may solve the problem. If that's not an option, then your workaround is as good as any solution. The alternative would be inserting a phase-shifting plugin to correct the timing, or manually shifting the cloned track back in time to match the original, which isn't that hard to do visually by zooming in on the two waveforms and lining them up.


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    #6
    scook
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    Re: FX Bin? Bypassed fx still color sound? 2016/11/13 09:11:48 (permalink)
    Try toggling the audio engine to force a PDC recalculation.
     
    #7
    Bloodrocuted666
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    Re: FX Bin? Bypassed fx still color sound? 2016/11/13 23:28:46 (permalink)
    This is due to PDC. I had the same thing the other day when I was doing something similar to what you are doing but with Slate drums. When you bypass hit space bar twice and it will be back to normal.  When you originally hit play the plugin delay compensation is right but by bypassing or unbypassing a plugin in an FX chain it doesn't recalculate it and it all goes out of phase.  Hitting space and then space again to stop and then start playback again seemed to resolve the issue for me.

    I had the FX chain the the prochannel(I like to use console emulation/EQ/etc in the prochannel) when I had the issue I don't know if the same thing applies when its in the FX bin.

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    #8
    SuprMelO
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    Re: FX Bin? Bypassed fx still color sound? 2016/11/19 19:59:59 (permalink)
    Thanks for all the replies everyone. I tried a few toggles of the PDC but ended up with the same-ish results, but I don't really understand it. Also the issue continued when hitting space a few times to restart the playback. Oh well, the workaround covers the bases for now.
    #9
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