vividox
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Insert Time/Measures Problem
Hey guys, I'm having a problem with Insert Time/Measures.
I'm trying to insert measures at measure 486. At measure 486, I have a time signature change going to 3/4 time (from 4/4 time, if that matters). However, if I go to Project -> Insert Time/Measures, and tell it to insert 1 measure - all of the checkboxes checked in the options - the result is Sonar adding a four beat measure, then sliding my existing time signatures 27 measures (so the 3/4 time signature change that was at 486 is now at measure 513).
I have no idea what is going on or how to fix it. I've played with different slide options, trying it with everything selected vs. nothing selected, nothing seems to work. My time signatures are either not sliding at all (by not having the option checked) or sliding by 27 measures instead of 1. Does anyone have any idea on a solution?
Also, is there a way to slide by a number of beats instead of a whole number of measures?
Honestly don't understand why this utility is so complicated, if I want to shove a 7/8 measure in the middle of a 4/4 passage and move everything down 7 eighth notes, that shouldn't be rocket science. *Grumble*
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Base 57
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Re: Insert Time/Measures Problem
2016/12/05 13:32:22
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☄ Helpfulby vividox 2016/12/05 13:49:45
Apparently an inserted measure will always have the time signature of the preceding measure. So to insert a 3/4 measure after a 4/4 measure, insert using "ticks". Multiply "ticks per quarter note (found in preferences)" by the number of beats being inserted. For me this would be 2880 ticks (960X3). Then edit the time sig for the newly inserted beats to 3/4 and the following measure back to 4/4. Subsequent Time sigs should be correct if you use the slide option in the insert time dialog (I have no clue why you are getting that 27 measure slide; I can't replicate that).
I believe all of us are hoping that 'Ripple Editing" will solve some of these arrangement issues.
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jsg
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Re: Insert Time/Measures Problem
2016/12/05 13:37:56
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☄ Helpfulby vividox 2016/12/05 13:50:32
There are bugs in Sonar that do not seem to get fixed. You have found one of them. The insert time-measure command works correctly in simple situations, i.e. one track, no meter changes. As soon as any kind of complexity arises (multiple meters for example), things don't work so well. I've been in your situation many times as I write large-scale pieces. You'll either have to move material over by as many beats as you need to by hand using cut and paste or move notes with the slide command. I've reported this bug, as I think others have, but apparently adding more features is always more important than fine-tuning editing tools so that they work in a large variety of musical situations. Jerry www.jerrygerber.com
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vividox
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Re: Insert Time/Measures Problem
2016/12/05 13:52:58
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Thanks for the responses guys. I got the 2880 ticks thing to work, but it's still sliding my time signature changes by 27 measures for some silly reason. Maybe I'll try to write a CAL file, this particular project has a LOT of time signature changes and tempo changes, so it's not something I want to move by hand.
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ampfixer
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Re: Insert Time/Measures Problem
2016/12/05 14:45:14
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I truly hope that Cakewalk gets these timeline issues resolved. I assume the underlying issue is the same one that causes delete hole to malfunction. I can't figure out why they keep changing the look and feel of Sonar while these fundamental issues remain unsolved for years.
I quit assembling midi tracks for drums using Sonar because dragging and dropping patterns would have completely unpredictable results. No such issues creating drum tracks in other programs. That's a really big work around that shouldn't be needed, yet there it is.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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jsg
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Re: Insert Time/Measures Problem
2016/12/05 15:42:12
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ampfixer
I truly hope that Cakewalk gets these timeline issues resolved. I assume the underlying issue is the same one that causes delete hole to malfunction. I can't figure out why they keep changing the look and feel of Sonar while these fundamental issues remain unsolved for years.
I quit assembling midi tracks for drums using Sonar because dragging and dropping patterns would have completely unpredictable results. No such issues creating drum tracks in other programs. That's a really big work around that shouldn't be needed, yet there it is.
The delete hole is a different issue. That one is easily resolved by going to Preferences-Customization-Editing and unchecking "non-destructive MIDI editing". I don't think the developers are very attentive to certain bugs. They seem to be focused on new features, new features and new features. If you have a million color choices yet the copy/paste operations are dysfunctional, it's not much of a DAW... Jerry www.jerrygerber.com
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Anonymungus!
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Re: Insert Time/Measures Problem
2016/12/05 15:53:24
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I have never had these problems once I figured it out.
1) First put your material or space where you want.
2) Then go and apply meter changes at the appropriate places using "Insert Meter/Key Change"
(Note that when you change the time signature, it stays at that time sig until another change later, or you change it again. If you are in 4/4 and want to add 1 bar of 7/8, put timeline on where you want to change, then 'Insert Meter/Key change' to 7/8. Move timeline one bar over and change it back to 4/4. In other words, apply or change time sig last.)
Hope this helps, God Bless
I have never had problems copy/pasting or sliding clips around. I've had the newest Sonar versions for years now using Windows 10.
Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime, Windows 10 x64, Intel Quad Core CPU@3.40GHz, 8GB RAM, (2)1.5T Hard Drives, Presonus AudioBox 44VSL, Roland A-500Pro MIDI Controller & lots more stuff
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vividox
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Re: Insert Time/Measures Problem
2016/12/05 17:42:46
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Anonymungus!
I have never had these problems once I figured it out.
1) First put your material or space where you want.
2) Then go and apply meter changes at the appropriate places using "Insert Meter/Key Change"
(Note that when you change the time signature, it stays at that time sig until another change later, or you change it again. If you are in 4/4 and want to add 1 bar of 7/8, put timeline on where you want to change, then 'Insert Meter/Key change' to 7/8. Move timeline one bar over and change it back to 4/4. In other words, apply or change time sig last.)
Hope this helps, God Bless
I have never had problems copy/pasting or sliding clips around. I've had the newest Sonar versions for years now using Windows 10.
I almost always run into problems with moving time signatures around. I have a tendency to spit ball ideas in Sonar, not have everything pre-planned and structured perfectly from the get go. Sometimes I'll write a section A then a section B then want to hear what it sounds like to put B in front of A instead. I shouldn't have to edit all my time signatures just to move a couple of measures around. I probably abuse time signatures more than most, but I agree with the comments above saying I'd like to see basic editing functions work how they are intended to work rather than see new features. 
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Anonymungus!
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Re: Insert Time/Measures Problem
2016/12/05 19:17:20
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I see your point about moving sections around and having the timing remain correct. Working with material like that (above) must be a real hair-puller.  Yes, I agree it is about time to fix these issues!
Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime, Windows 10 x64, Intel Quad Core CPU@3.40GHz, 8GB RAM, (2)1.5T Hard Drives, Presonus AudioBox 44VSL, Roland A-500Pro MIDI Controller & lots more stuff
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Anonymungus!
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Re: Insert Time/Measures Problem
2016/12/05 19:32:21
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CW is soon to release 'Ripple Editing' which is in the works now. This would allow us to define sections & and move them around. I assume they will have to address these issues concerning Time Signatures to do this. If they don't fix it, they'll soon have a big mess on their hands.
Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime, Windows 10 x64, Intel Quad Core CPU@3.40GHz, 8GB RAM, (2)1.5T Hard Drives, Presonus AudioBox 44VSL, Roland A-500Pro MIDI Controller & lots more stuff
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chuckebaby
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Re: Insert Time/Measures Problem
2016/12/05 20:02:41
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I was about to mention that ripple editing is on its way I believe.
that's a new feature and it should help with some of the problems seen here.
Don't knock all new features. Some have been huge time savers.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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markiv2290
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Re: Insert Time/Measures Problem
2017/07/08 02:40:57
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Base 57
Apparently an inserted measure will always have the time signature of the preceding measure. So to insert a 3/4 measure after a 4/4 measure, insert using "ticks". Multiply "ticks per quarter note (found in preferences)" by the number of beats being inserted. For me this would be 2880 ticks (960X3). Then edit the time sig for the newly inserted beats to 3/4 and the following measure back to 4/4. Subsequent Time sigs should be correct if you use the slide option in the insert time dialog (I have no clue why you are getting that 27 measure slide; I can't replicate that).
I believe all of us are hoping that 'Ripple Editing" will solve some of these arrangement issues.
Old thread, but thanks for this very helpful tip. My compositions use A LOT of time signature changes and since I use Sonar as a composition tool I mess a lot with them. One section might start as 5/4 and then later on change to 7/4 or whatever as the song evolves so this trick is very, very handy.
Intel i7-3820 (LGA2011 ftw), Win 8.1, SaffirePro24, Sonar Studio
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