Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings

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davec69
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December 05, 16 1:52 PM (permalink)

Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings

Laid down some guitar tracks last night, for the first time since updating to the latest version of Sonar.  I'm noticing a weird playback effect on the recorded tracks, which I would describe as random Tape Flutter or wobble.  Never had this before.  Kind of sounds like the effect you get when you apply audiosnap, or melodyne's offline render, while editing audio, except in this case, it's happening to everything that's being recorded.  I actually went back and re-recorded that parts a couple times, but the effect remained.  Is this something in the latest update?  It's really a subtle effect, but very noticeable on my guitar tracks.

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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 05, 16 2:04 PM (permalink)
    First I would double check your preferences  and audio settings are correct. 
    Use a higher buffer setting to track. 
    Shut off background processes like the internet. If windows 10 is updating while your recording this is not good. 
    Check your interface by recording to a different DAW or a free wave editor. 

    Johnny V  
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    #2
    brundlefly
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 05, 16 2:11 PM (permalink)
    Also check for 'Remove DC Offset' being enabled in Preferences > Audio > Playback and Recording. This causes distortion when recording mono inputs.

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    davec69
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 05, 16 2:28 PM (permalink)
    I have gone through my preferences/settings.  I actually disabled the DC Offset option previously, to resolve a different issue that I was having (can't remember what it was).  The first thing that I tried when I noticed the flutter, was turning DC Offset on again, but it didn't seem to make a difference.  
     
    This effect doesn't seem to be related to buffer settings.  At the moment at least, I'm not having any signs of low buffer settings.  I have my ASIO set at 512ms.  I usually keep it there for mixing audio, and I'll lower it to 192ms for recording midi tracks.  FWIW, I do record everything at 96k/24bit. 

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 05, 16 3:48 PM (permalink)
    So I guess you're probably direct-monitoring the analog input through the interface while recording; is that right? If you monitor through SONAR do you get the same distortion of the live input, or only on playback of the recording?

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
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    davec69
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 05, 16 4:09 PM (permalink)
    Yes.  This is correct.  I record my guitar tracks through the S/pdif connection of my Kemper Profiler.  Sounds fine when monitoring live.   I do have "Use ASIO Direct Monitoring"  checked in my interface settings.  I also notice that the "Input Echo" button is usually lit when tracking in Sonar.  Not Sure if this matters.
     
    I'll give your theory a try tonight and report back.
     
    brundlefly
    So I guess you're probably direct-monitoring the analog input through the interface while recording; is that right? If you monitor through SONAR do you get the same distortion of the live input, or only on playback of the recording?





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    BlixYZ
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 05, 16 9:30 PM (permalink)
    Are you rendering mp3s or wavs?
    Are you using fast bounce?
    Have you tried listening on multiple playback devices?
    My car sometimes creates an almost leslie-like effect on an entire mix, but it also does it to music that i listen to from Spotify and whatnot.  It may be an artifact of bluetooth?

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    bvideo
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 06, 16 1:15 AM (permalink)
    Is the clock source for your S/pdif connection stable?

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    millzy
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 06, 16 5:40 AM (permalink)
    Is it some weird phasing thing going on? Where are the outputs/sends of your guitar tracks going? 

    Millzy

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    tlw
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 06, 16 6:07 AM (permalink)
    If you are both monitoring the audio directly theough your interface or from the Kemper and you have "input echo" turned on on the track then you'll be hearing the guitar twice. Once through the interface/Kemper then again when Sonar echoes it back to the interface some milliseconds later.

    Depending on the latency setting the returning echo from Sonar might sound a bit like doubling, odd phasing which will reinforce some frequencies and weaken others or as a slap-back delay.

    It shouldn't affect the recorded audio though, unless the echo from the track is then somehow being returned to the track that's recording so you are recording both the guitar signal from the Kemper and the delayed inout echo from Sonar. If that's happening then a phasing problem that sounds thin and a bit warbly might well be the result.

    Might be worth checking your signal routing to make sure that isn't the case.

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    davec69
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 06, 16 2:42 PM (permalink)
    To answer a few of the above posts:
     
    I'm not rendering any mp3's or wav's at this point, just recording guitar tracks for the project, directly into Sonar.
     
    Yes.  The clock source is stable.  I have recorded many projects via the same setup, and this is the first time that I've had this issue.
     
    When listening to the guitar part live, I do not notice this problem.  I wouldn't call it phasing.  More like just an occasional flutter.   I didn't have time last night, but I will get some time tomorrow night, I can try a few things then.
     
    I understand about the phasing that would be audible, if listening to both the live and processed signal through Sonar.  My Roland interface has a blend knob, which allows me to sweep between the live input, and the processed Sonar audio. As you mentioned, I'm not hearing it during recording, only after the track has been recorded.  It really does sound to me like the slight difference in quality that you hear, when you use audiosnap or melodyne on a track in offline render mode, as an example.   
     
     
     
     
     
    tlw
    If you are both monitoring the audio directly theough your interface or from the Kemper and you have "input echo" turned on on the track then you'll be hearing the guitar twice. Once through the interface/Kemper then again when Sonar echoes it back to the interface some milliseconds later.

    Depending on the latency setting the returning echo from Sonar might sound a bit like doubling, odd phasing which will reinforce some frequencies and weaken others or as a slap-back delay.

    It shouldn't affect the recorded audio though, unless the echo from the track is then somehow being returned to the track that's recording so you are recording both the guitar signal from the Kemper and the delayed inout echo from Sonar. If that's happening then a phasing problem that sounds thin and a bit warbly might well be the result.

    Might be worth checking your signal routing to make sure that isn't the case.




    Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 06, 16 4:00 PM (permalink)
     
    Did you read this thread? Seems mixed bag of good and bad with Roland audio interfaces lately. 
     
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Calling-All-Roland-Sound-Card-Users-Quad-and-Octa-m3524639.aspx
     
     

    Johnny V  
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    #12
    BRainbow
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    Re: Weird Tape Flutter Effect On New Recordings December 06, 16 6:58 PM (permalink)
    You say your SPDIF clock has been stable in the past, but check to be sure your interface is actually set to the correct clock input.  Mine switches sometimes after I update things.  SPDIF setting reverts to internal or ADAT occasionally.

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