Helpful ReplySonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ?

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Afrodrum
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2016/12/15 21:15:42 (permalink)

Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ?

I have realised there must be a lot in Sonar that I know it's there but was afraid (or too ignorant) to use.
This is to expose what I am (or we are) missing, and NOT to point if there are not so needed features. I hope that you fellows would list some features that you have not used yet and  there will be someone else to explain how much you/we are missing.
 
In my case the features I  have (almost) never used yet are:
 
1. Bi Filter
2. Midi effects
3. R mix
4. Style Dials: Smoother, Gater, Shaper
5. Drum Replacer (shame, I know)
6. Panipulator

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Leee
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 01:51:41 (permalink)
I think there are very few people here who have used every single feature Sonar Platinum has to offer.  Maybe the entry level version you'd find more people that use every feature, but Platinum has more than anyone could ever use...especially if you have a bunch of 3rd party plugins as well.

I haven't used any of the ones you mentioned either, except for the style dials, I tried them once.
But I basically use what I like and what I'm used to.  Every once in a while I'll try a feature or function I've never used before just to see what it can do.  But I'm a creature of habit, which is why I'll probably never switch to another sequencer/DAW software.   Some of the features I don't use because I have better plugins (like Ozone and Toontrack's Superior Drummer), some I don't use because I just don't know what they do.  But like I said, after writing close to 100 songs, I like to shake things up a bit and try something within Sonar that I've never tried before.
It's great to have DAW software with so many choices.
post edited by Leee - 2016/12/16 17:40:07

Lee Shapiro
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Welcome BandLab and thank you for giving Cakewalk and Sonar a new lease on life.
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bitflipper
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 13:00:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2016/12/16 16:24:38
Good place to start is Craig Anderton's SONAR tips collection. Tips, by nature, tend to point out non-obvious or underused features.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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razor
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 13:16:51 (permalink)
bitflipper
Good place to start is Craig Anderton's SONAR tips collection. Tips, by nature, tend to point out non-obvious or underused features.




Hey Bit Flipper--
 
Do you think the Sonar tips are really userful? I've been using Cakewalk for decades, but I know there any many features I don't take advantage of. Would you prefer this book over Scott Reams Sonar books?

Stephen Davis
 
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 13:20:14 (permalink)
i've tried Drum Replacer a couple times, but with results that didn't make sense.  
 
Patch Points is a feature i have not used yet, why? i don't know. what are they again?
 
i never use the Step Sequencer, or the Matrix View (maybe because i do a lot of my MIDI stuff in Maschine standalone, and bounce all the individual audio tracks from there into Sonar).
 
i never use Take Lanes because i've had a couple experiences early on with them where my audio would disappear (even though the visual representation of the audio was on the screen still).  so i use my own way of comping in Sonar with individual audio tracks & that works well for me.
 
i have yet to use Addictive Drums, Lounge Lizard, Studio Instruments, Strum Session, and a lot of the Blue FX stuff.
 
what i do use, though, i pretty much LOVE.
 

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chuckebaby
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 15:41:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2016/12/16 16:07:01
razor
bitflipper
Good place to start is Craig Anderton's SONAR tips collection. Tips, by nature, tend to point out non-obvious or underused features.




Hey Bit Flipper--
 
Do you think the Sonar tips are really userful? I've been using Cakewalk for decades, but I know there any many features I don't take advantage of. Would you prefer this book over Scott Reams Sonar books?


That Tips book has so many real life examples in it, where Scotts books (are great I may add) mostly rely on the features themselves. What im trying to say is, if you want documentation scotts books are great, when you want over 100 examples of real life situations using Sonar, The tips book is what you want.
 
I have read both and honestly, its hard to compare them. they are so different yet both are excellent reads.
Survival manuals if you will. The tips book has challenged me to work outside the box and learn some new things. Things I never realized existed in sonar.

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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 16:08:49 (permalink)
chuckebaby
razor
bitflipper
Good place to start is Craig Anderton's SONAR tips collection. Tips, by nature, tend to point out non-obvious or underused features.




Hey Bit Flipper--
 
Do you think the Sonar tips are really userful? I've been using Cakewalk for decades, but I know there any many features I don't take advantage of. Would you prefer this book over Scott Reams Sonar books?


That Tips book has so many real life examples in it, where Scotts books (are great I may add) mostly rely on the features themselves. What im trying to say is, if you want documentation scotts books are great, when you want over 100 examples of real life situations using Sonar, The tips book is what you want.
 
I have read both and honestly, its hard to compare them. they are so different yet both are excellent reads.
Survival manuals if you will. The tips book has challenged me to work outside the box and learn some new things. Things I never realized existed in sonar.




Thanks for the comparisons (of sorts). I want to streamline my workflow and see if there are more efficient ways of doing things. I do what others do and just stick with things I know, but since there are so many new features added all the time, if I'm using 10 year old techniques, there's bound to be a faster way to do things.

Stephen Davis
 
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Core i7 SB-E MOBO
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chuckebaby
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 18:53:10 (permalink)
razor
chuckebaby
razor
bitflipper
Good place to start is Craig Anderton's SONAR tips collection. Tips, by nature, tend to point out non-obvious or underused features.




Hey Bit Flipper--
 
Do you think the Sonar tips are really userful? I've been using Cakewalk for decades, but I know there any many features I don't take advantage of. Would you prefer this book over Scott Reams Sonar books?


That Tips book has so many real life examples in it, where Scotts books (are great I may add) mostly rely on the features themselves. What im trying to say is, if you want documentation scotts books are great, when you want over 100 examples of real life situations using Sonar, The tips book is what you want.
 
I have read both and honestly, its hard to compare them. they are so different yet both are excellent reads.
Survival manuals if you will. The tips book has challenged me to work outside the box and learn some new things. Things I never realized existed in sonar.




Thanks for the comparisons (of sorts). I want to streamline my workflow and see if there are more efficient ways of doing things. I do what others do and just stick with things I know, but since there are so many new features added all the time, if I'm using 10 year old techniques, there's bound to be a faster way to do things.


totally understand where your coming from. I don't like mixing up my routine much to be honest.
However I found the only way to improve certain things is to get out of my comfort zone.
Work in a different way, try new things.
There's nothing wrong with using 10 year old techniques. im right there with you man, some techniques never fade.
but its always nice to expand, try new things. it can only make things better, or you back to the same old "It works for me".
Good luck ;-)

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bitflipper
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 19:02:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2016/12/17 19:33:11
razor
bitflipper
Good place to start is Craig Anderton's SONAR tips collection. Tips, by nature, tend to point out non-obvious or underused features.




Hey Bit Flipper--
 
Do you think the Sonar tips are really userful? I've been using Cakewalk for decades, but I know there any many features I don't take advantage of. Would you prefer this book over Scott Reams Sonar books?


I've been a Cakewalk customer for, geez, nearly 30 years now. I learned something new from Craig's tip sheet within 5 minutes.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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BobF
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 19:10:00 (permalink)
While it's certainly interesting to think of features that haven't been used, IMO it's much more interesting to first think of things you need to do, then explore what features/tools might exist to get the job done.

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dcmg
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 19:14:36 (permalink)
I'm always looking for way to do things with fewer mouse moves or keystrokes, so Craig's tips really hit home there.
I've only recently started using "speed comping", which may really take some wear and tear off my mousing hand :)
bi-filter: recently used that and now REALLY love it. One of the first reached for when I want to get something sounding odd..quickly.
 
Step Sequencer: never been much into that way of doing drums, but played with it recently and it was a nice change...may just use that more often for the electro stuff.
 
Vocal Sync: Horrible early experiences with that, but recently tried it with pretty good results. Maybe I really can skip Vocalign :)
 
And the grand finale: Audio Snap.
Good Lord, I can not for the life of me get that function to ever create something better than I can do manually. Seems like a hot mess, and my ProTool friend just shrugs when we talk about it. I LOVE Sonar, but Elastic Audio is the only feature in PT that has ever made me consider switching. I'm sure it's pilot error, but everything I hear about EA is that it's fairly simple...and just works.
 
If they every got AS working like that, I would be thrilled :)
 

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jude77
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 19:58:18 (permalink)
The truth is I don't know enough about what I'm not using to even know it's there.  So I don't use it.  I'm hoping that  CW will make some videos aimed at intermediate users to cover some of the new things. 
 
On the other hand I absolutely LOVE SONAR.  I've tried ever other DAW out there and I keep coming home.  For me the basics of SONAR (record/edit/comp/add effects) are easy-peasy.  If you ever worked with tape you know how to work with the basics of SONAR. 
 
Anyway, knowledge is power, and I certainly wish I knew more because I'm sure there are easier ways to do some things, as well as ways to do somethings that seem impossible.

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Anderton
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 23:16:56 (permalink)
dcmg
And the grand finale: Audio Snap.
Good Lord, I can not for the life of me get that function to ever create something better than I can do manually. Seems like a hot mess, and my ProTool friend just shrugs when we talk about it. I LOVE Sonar, but Elastic Audio is the only feature in PT that has ever made me consider switching. I'm sure it's pilot error, but everything I hear about EA is that it's fairly simple...and just works.



The good news: The AudioSnap engine can give really excellent results.
The bad news: The results will depend on how well you prep the file. 
The good news: Prepping a file is easy if you know what will make for good results.
The bad news: If you don't know what will make for good results, you can't prep the file properly.
 
I could never get AudioSnap to work right but over the last year or so, I've really figured it out and now i use it quite a bit. Much of that involves knowing when to disable AudioSnap transients, and when to create ones that aren't there.
 
There are other programs that handle this kind of task better, however, with about 25% more effort you can get fine results with SONAR. I think the real issue is how often you need to use it. If you're going to quantize all your tracks all the time, it would be a PITA with AudioSnap. But if you need to fix some tracks in a project, AS does the job without having to leave SONAR. I use AS a lot on rhythm guitar parts whose intent is to be more percussive than anything else, and therefore, it they're offbeat compared to the drums they sound "wrong."
 
However part of why I get along with AudioSnap is I really know my way around creating Groove Loops and REX files, and that knowledge is key to getting AS to work effectively.
 
I really wish I had time to do more videos...if I could do a 20 minute video on AudioSnap (which would probably take me about 20 hours to produce), I bet it would make the whole topic a lot easier for people. I did do a couple AudioSnap tips in "The Big Book of SONAR Tips" but there's much more that could be said. 
 
 
 
 

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Anderton
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/16 23:31:39 (permalink)
Speed comping: You'll get best results by far if you enable snap. That's counter-intuitive because logically, it would make sense to separate phrases by splitting in the silent parts. Snapping means you'll sometimes end up missing the beginning or end of a phrase, but don't worry about it. You can always "heal" the split after the fact with the crossfade tool. By snapping, the phrases become much more like easy-to-manipulate Lego blocks.
 
VocalSync: The tool you love to hate. Sometimes it's just so perfect, sometimes it's dreadful, and you wonder why. The bottom line is the smaller the phrase you sync, the better. You also need to accept that VocalSync will work 80% of the time if you choose the right part of the phrase to sync, but that for the other 20%, manual stretching is indicated so you can apply value judgements.
 
Personal philosophy time here...we have a ton of "automatic" tools--VocalSync, AudioSnap, gates, compressors, noise reduction, normalizing, etc. They all work to some degree, but IMO nothing works better than putting a lot of time and effort into doing these operations manually. So are we doomed to devoting hours to deal with this stuff? No! Use the automatic tools. Listen to the results. Make note of the sections where it doesn't work, then undo. Fix the problematic sections manually, or by more finesse in use of the tool (e.g., applying VocalSync to a shorter phrase). Then apply the automatic tool again. Perfect...yes, you spent more time than if the automatic process worked perfectly, but a ton less than doing it manually.
 
There's pitch correction all over the vocals in my latest album, "Neo-." But I bet hardly anyone will notice where it's happening, because I'll apply it to a note here, a note there. 
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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ArcRex
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/17 00:00:23 (permalink)
I would not worry about tools that you haven't used, rather be aware that they are there. When you run into an issue, think about the tools that may help.
 
I use the step sequencer as a click. I cannot seem to use the built in click, bu I just make a 1 measure loop and can
just  put in a simple bass/snare, and I can follow that.(You can also make quick changes, for instance making a 3/4 click)
 
I maybe slow, but I recently realized that I could use the Pro Channel Tube Saturator(w/o distortion) in front of my Amplitude sim to replace the guitar volume knob. I can then record dry with the guitar full up then when I mix, I can dial the tube saturator to get amp to growl like a proper guitarist, but in a controlled environment.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/17 01:23:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2016/12/17 23:11:15
The Midi FX are pretty cool, I find the Chord Analyzer a bit sluggish at times in playing from the transport, but fine in real time 
 
The midi Echo is really flexible and allows this to note offset the each delay and choose chromatic or diatonic scales, you can swing them too. nice for creating runs. If you set the number of echoes to 3 and the delay to zero in milliseconds, the notes occur at once, creating a 4 note block chord from one note.
 
If you then add the Chord analyzer after the Echo, it will show you the notes created, the chords it has made. 
 
Transpose is pretty cool too, you can run you midi performance through it and see how it sounds in different keys or in different modes. Change you melody and chords from C Ionian to C Dorian for example.
 
Put in sequence, of Echo>Transpose>Analyzer will allow you to create block chords from one note, then fix it to a key, changing voice shapes as a result, then see what these chords are as a result. Seeing what interesting chord progression you make by accident. Playing into this is pretty fun (I use a windcontroller which is monophonic player only, so I can get pretty expressive chords from one note). After you have something, you can see what make minor changes to this the midi FX chain and stumble across interesting progressions, Open the voicing by playing with the pitch offset in Echo, adding more note extensions, changing the keys and modes in Transpose.
 
I've not used to Arpegiator that much, it's pretty cool though and nicely laid out. Add this to the end of the MIDi FX chain and from one notes on you keyboard you are creating interesting arpegiated patterns of interesting chords voicings and progression.
 
The midi event filter can help out too, when you get into difficulties. My windcontroller send pitchbend very easily, and when playing keys, it sounds wrong to modulate the pitch. Most time I can turn pitch modulation off in the synth and continue sending pitch bend, but when I can't, this comes to the recue.
 
I don't use the quantize, but someone recently asked about how to make straight drum hits sound more natural. I think this would be another good tool for that.  
 
It' a shame it's not been added too. A chord device, where instead of haphazardly like above, I can define the notes that will result when I play one note from the keyboard. And a midi voice splitter to allow notes to be output to different midi channels. Through ranges or intelligently assigning notes from a chord to different midi channels, based on their order. So bottom notes go to 1, the next note up to 2, and the next to 3, and so on. So a four note chord could be assigned to cello, Viola, Violins one and two, or baritone, Trombone, alto and trumpt 

 
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Kamikaze
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/17 12:31:14 (permalink)


 
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Afrodrum
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/17 16:58:53 (permalink)
Leee,
Bitflipper,
Wetdentist,
Chuckebaby
BobF,
Dcmg,
Jude77,
Craig,
ArcRex,
Kamikaze
 
Thank you !!!
 
 

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dcmg
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/17 22:40:37 (permalink)
Anderton
Speed comping: You'll get best results by far if you enable snap. That's counter-intuitive because logically, it would make sense to separate phrases by splitting in the silent parts. Snapping means you'll sometimes end up missing the beginning or end of a phrase, but don't worry about it. You can always "heal" the split after the fact with the crossfade tool. By snapping, the phrases become much more like easy-to-manipulate Lego blocks. 



There you go again..making my life easier....
I really think the speed comping tool is pretty brilliant...and I've been remiss in not using it. Better late...
 
Re: Audio Snap, to your point, it appears to be a tool that requires time when you're *not* concerned with being productive or fast so that you might fully learn its quirks. I just need to put in more time. 
After pitchy singers, acoustic guitarists with dicey timing is my most laborious and frequent editing scenario. I intend to keep plugging away at Audio Snap in the hopes that it becomes a time-saving tool in that scenario. As always, the real-world tips and shortcuts are mucho helpful :)

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/18 05:13:50 (permalink)
Anderton
dcmg
And the grand finale: Audio Snap.
Good Lord, I can not for the life of me get that function to ever create something better than I can do manually. Seems like a hot mess, and my ProTool friend just shrugs when we talk about it. I LOVE Sonar, but Elastic Audio is the only feature in PT that has ever made me consider switching. I'm sure it's pilot error, but everything I hear about EA is that it's fairly simple...and just works.



The good news: The AudioSnap engine can give really excellent results.
The bad news: The results will depend on how well you prep the file. 
The good news: Prepping a file is easy if you know what will make for good results.
The bad news: If you don't know what will make for good results, you can't prep the file properly.
 
I could never get AudioSnap to work right but over the last year or so, I've really figured it out and now i use it quite a bit. Much of that involves knowing when to disable AudioSnap transients, and when to create ones that aren't there.



admittedly, I have avoided using AudioSnap in the past - mainly because the way I thought it should work and hence tried to apply it, did not give me any usable results ... just lately I bothered to read up on it and first of all had to realize that there is quite a bit of documentation (which is not bad, just scattered across many help pages) ... and after being through all these pages about 3 times while giving it a go on a simpler task, I'm start to change my view on AudioSnap ... currently I believe the biggest problem with AudioSnap is it not being intuitive enough ...

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#20
BobF
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/18 06:45:35 (permalink)
AS would make an excellent video topic.

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#21
Anderton
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/18 11:04:04 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dcmg 2016/12/18 11:08:36
dcmg
After pitchy singers, acoustic guitarists with dicey timing is my most laborious and frequent editing scenario. I intend to keep plugging away at Audio Snap in the hopes that it becomes a time-saving tool in that scenario. As always, the real-world tips and shortcuts are mucho helpful :)



I believe you said you bought "The Big Book of SONAR Tips." In the AudioSnap chapter, check out the tip on page 243, which relates specifically to fixing dicey rhythm guitar parts.
 
An important point about AudioSnap is it's not enough just to have markers at every transient. You also need to disable markers that occur within a single continuous block of sound, like a chord, so you don't stretch half a chord but not the other half.
 
Try the tip a few times, and AS will become second-nature for fixing guitar parts. 

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#22
abacab
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/18 13:06:50 (permalink)
wetdentist
 
Patch Points is a feature i have not used yet, why? i don't know. what are they again?




Great thread!  Bookmarked!  Cool tips on the MIDI effects, will have to try that chord stuff out
 
I saw this question about Patch Points.  I have tried them out a couple of times and they appear to be a great addition to Sonar signal routing.  This an an area that I am still learning about.
 
For those with Craig's tip book, he goes into great detail in Chapter 2.  Here is a teaser:
 
"Synth recording took the concept another step further by allowing real-time recording of synth outputs, but now Patch Points and Aux Tracks introduce a mind-boggling level of flexibility: you can feed tracks (audio or instrument) into other tracks, buses into tracks, sends into tracks, or even (get ready!) tracks, sends, and buses into the same track—and much more. It’s even possible to do something like feed track outputs and bus outputs into an Aux Track, which can then feed into a different track along with other Aux Tracks and a Send. This may sound complicated enough to make your head explode, but it’s all implemented in a smart, intuitive way that not only adds no clutter to the Track or Console View, but even cleans up unused Patch Points if the routing changes"
 
Otherwise, there are a few good examples here:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Mixing.14.html
http://blog.cakewalk.com/five-reasons-why-patch-points-rock/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCAlFThGvH8
http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/patch-notes

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#23
Kamikaze
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Re: Sonar features I have never used, and what am I missing ? 2016/12/18 23:21:06 (permalink)
abacab
wetdentist
Patch Points is a feature i have not used yet, why? i don't know. what are they again?




Great thread!  Bookmarked!  Cool tips on the MIDI effects, will have to try that chord stuff out




 
I have since found this, so I don't use the midi fx so much now, but they are fun for coming up with something less expected.
 


 
#24
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