Kamikaze
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 05:37:48
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I always have something to play over before I record an external source. Usually drums and a keys. So I'd have a bus reverb set up. When I just play and want to hear it through a reverb, I'd use just the track.
I tend to use 2 bus reverbs, so they are in parallel. On a track this would have to be in series, so the reverb 1 is going through reverb 2, which I don't want.
Bus reverbs for the mix
Track reverbs when you want it to sound a little different of someting special to the rest of the mix. I don't record vocal, but I guess this would be a good situation for having something unique going on.
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fireberd
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 06:11:17
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This has been beat to death. But, My MOTU 896mk3 Hybrid has a reverb option for the singer (or whoever) and it is not sent to the DAW. Thus the singer can hear reverb but the recorded track is dry. I've had other recording interface units before the MOTU and they all had the "local" reverb option. Didn't have to do any tricks in Sonar.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 06:48:27
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Sanderxpander
Do you really set up different pre-delay and tail EQs for different vocals during tracking??
Not really to be honest, just different presets I've created over the years. The only real difference I've noticed is by using the same reverb for multiple tracks, your feeding the same Reverb with multiple vocals. and im not sure if you have ever noticed it, but when sending multiple signals through the same reverb all together at once, it can sound a bit like mush. Having independent reverbs just sounds cleaner to me. No ? The difference is slight but it is there. I could probably do the same as you. the only difference is I would be deleting Sends instead of FX bin reverb 
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 07:43:34
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I have the exact opposite experience - using multiple reverbs (especially with different presets) makes for more mush than using a single one.
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listen
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 08:06:58
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I once again continue to learn as I read the various discussion - this discussion has been helpful...
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Kamikaze
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 08:12:50
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Watched a Youtube video with a slightly nauseating Fab Dupont, he used three reverbs. The first he called the office, which gave presence. The second to create the space, so a Room, and the third a plate to wash things together. I liked the idea for both using layers of reverb to add touches of each and get an individual sound to sit a certain way, but also to plce sound within the depth of each to create clarity.
I had just been using one, but I shifted to two, the Room and Plate (for example) But since buying samplemodeling brass, which is dry, and can be bone dry with the early reflections turned off. I thought about just switching them off and add that office fro the same role.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 09:02:09
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Sanderxpander
I have the exact opposite experience - using multiple reverbs (especially with different presets) makes for more mush than using a single one.
Think about this, Vocal one is singing one part, routing part of that signal to a send to a reverb bus. Vocal two is singing an over laying vocal / an offset (Totally different rhythmic line). that reverb has to process two separate vocal parts doing two different things. I use sends no doubt, but its typically in the mix down process and more often than not, there are never two or more instruments/vocals feeding that send bus UNLESS they are doing the same exact thing. We all work differently. there's nothing wrong with that. I can see your point and respect that. I hope you can do the same. If you cant, oh well. its only an option. Im not going to be mixing any of your projects anytime soon and you wont be mixing any of mine 
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 09:31:10
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Of course, everyone has their own workflow :)
Always interesting to read about someone else's process.
Going back to the basics of what reverb is though, of course a reverb has to "do" two things if it has to process two vocal lines (even though the audiostream is blended before they hit the processing), but that's no different from two singers standing in the same room singing two different lines. I personally prefer that to putting them in different rooms singing two different lines. The latter will create unique reflections for each, true, but also a generally wider and thicker spectrum when you sum the two reverbs.
Anyway, if you have a way that works for you and your results are satisfying then don't let my opinion turn you off :)
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thedukewestern
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 09:37:52
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whenever I track with reverb in sonar, I do all of the above... only... make sure that the reverb plug in in your reverb track is set 100% wet. Many reverbs default to a 40/60 mix...etc. The echo your getting is not reverb, its a dry repeat coming from somewhere. You don't need an external unit. Get the dry zero latency from your interface and the wet repeat from sonar. You wont notice latency with just wet reverb etc.
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DeeringAmps
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 09:42:09
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Great discussion, food for thought. Different strokes I guess. But we are getting a bit "off topic" (not a bad thing). Interesting; 10 posts by the OP, all in this thread, and off we go . Maybe the OP will post his specs and we can get him laying down his tracks with confidence... But remember, he wants to "hear" a little verb while tracking; not print that verb. T
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 10:34:39
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Fortunately, if you're using plugins, it's a lot trickier to "print" reverb than to just apply it non-destructively :)
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tlw
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 10:43:03
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No effect or processing is printed or permanent unless a track or clip is bounced down with effects applied surely? That's kind of where DAWs differ from mixer/processors/tape studios.
So to add a reverb during tracking and not having it present later on just put the reverb in the project, enable track input echo and either turn down the input direct to monitors routing in the interface or just input echo the reverb by putting it on a pre-fader send, turning input echo on on the aux track and vocal track then pull down the vocal track fader.
Then set the interface's direct to output volume as you want it and there you go. Once the vocals are recorded just delete or turn off the reverb. Job done.
Direct monitoring through a DAW generally requires a round-trip latency under about 10 milliseconds. Most interface/PC combinations should be able to manage that. If not, then monitor the vocal direct and the reverb from Sonar.
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dlayna
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 10:52:03
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Bristol_Jonesey
Whenever I record vocals I always start by turning all Fx plugs off.
This should reduce latency to a very small amount. Do this by hitting 'e' on your keyboard.
Now add a reverb plugin to your vocal track's Fx bin, right click the bin and untick Bypass fx Bin
The reverb should now be the only Fx plug in operation.
Proceed as above - enable Input Echo and record your vocal.
If the latency is still too high then you'll need to adjust your driver settings
Hi, thanks for replying. I'll try this tonight.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 11:09:56
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Sanderxpander
Of course, everyone has their own workflow :)
Always interesting to read about someone else's process.
Going back to the basics of what reverb is though, of course a reverb has to "do" two things if it has to process two vocal lines (even though the audiostream is blended before they hit the processing), but that's no different from two singers standing in the same room singing two different lines. I personally prefer that to putting them in different rooms singing two different lines. The latter will create unique reflections for each, true, but also a generally wider and thicker spectrum when you sum the two reverbs.
Anyway, if you have a way that works for you and your results are satisfying then don't let my opinion turn you off :)
You bring up some good points. you have made me look at it from a different angle and as someone who can be stubborn in his ways, Im grateful for this.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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dlayna
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 11:47:09
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Hi everyone, I want to thank everyone for responding to my question. You're all amazing and brilliant!! Trying the different options has taught me a lot and I know this post will be helping others as well. In an earlier response, there was mention that the doubling effect may be coming from both the DAW and Presonus Audiobox. A friend of mine said it could be that I'm hearing both the direct signal and signal through sonar which adds latency, thus causing the "doubling effect." I had it set right in the middle. I'll adjust and see if that helps and if not, I may have to adjust the latency settings. http://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/210044633-Why-am-I-getting-a-chorus-doubling-effect-when-I-monitor-through-my-DAW- The AudioBox has a feature that allows monitoring either directly through the inputs or from the computer. This is changed by manipulating the "Mixer" knob, shown below:  If the knob is turned to inputs, one would only hear what is being played into the device; if the knob is turned to playback, one would hear only what is coming from the computer. If the knob is set in an intermediary position, one would hear both. Sometimes, if the knob is placed in an intermediary position, this can cause a "chorusing" or "flanging" effect, or even an effect as drastic as a slap-back delay. This is because it takes time for the audio to be processed by the computer, whereas the direct monitor bypasses the computer. Because of this delay, one of the signals is slightly (in the order of milliseconds) behind the direct input monitor, creating this "doubling" phenomena. http://www.reverbnation.com/dlayna
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dlayna
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 11:55:30
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fireberd
This has been beat to death. But, My MOTU 896mk3 Hybrid has a reverb option for the singer (or whoever) and it is not sent to the DAW. Thus the singer can hear reverb but the recorded track is dry. I've had other recording interface units before the MOTU and they all had the "local" reverb option. Didn't have to do any tricks in Sonar.
Hi, unfortunately, the Presonus Audiobox does not have any built-in effects :( I'll check out your Motu online. Thanks for responding.
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dlayna
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 11:57:13
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listen
I once again continue to learn as I read the various discussion - this discussion has been helpful...
I agree...I've learned a lot.
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dlayna
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 12:10:02
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DeeringAmps
"Where in the preferences do I change that? Is it under "Driver Settings" YES!
"or Sync and Caching?" NO!
You set latency with the ASIO Panel
unless of course you are using a laptop.
Then you need to research the new WASPI drivers.
Is the UAD a "satellite"?
And thanks to Sander:
none of you use effects busses?
(or aux tracks to keep the effects in the Vocal, Guitars, Keys, Drums folders; simplifies the buss view for me)
Of course you can put the verb in the Vocal effects bin, but I'm going to have a verb buss (aux track now) anyway.
Its in my template....
T
Hi, my UAD is a "satellite". I just responded thanking everyone for their input and in that reply I mentioned that it could be that the doubling effect is coming from both the DAW and Audiobox. I had it set right in the middle and could be hearing both. The one thing I noticed that I did not do when I followed your, instructions was that I did not "Mute" the "Dry" setting in the reverb settings. I'm going to try again and also change the settings on my audiobox mixer. I'm learning a lot from everyone.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 13:04:30
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dlayna
I'm using the Great River Mic-Pre and Presonus Audiobox USB for the mic.
The newer Presonus interfaces have effects built in, but i don't think your unit does. That would be the ideal solution. You can dial in the verb you want in the headphones with practically no latency, but record the track dry in SONAR. ========= Check out this video: https://youtu.be/d9YNouY7F8M It seems like this is what you are trying to accomplish. It is really a great system. The VSL interfaces have essentially the same features of the newest StudioLive mixers, so you can record dry into SONAR (which I assume is what one would almost always want to do, but you can apply effects and EQ directly into the headphones with practically no latency. Street price for the new 22VSL (2 preamps) is about $170. If you sell your non-VSL box on eBay, then the net would be just a little over $100. I've seen 1818vsl (8 preamps) used on eBay for $250
post edited by cparmerlee - 2016/12/28 22:39:13
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jadonx
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Re: Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb?
2016/12/28 16:36:39
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