Synth is playing without being selected

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I-S3-O
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2016/12/27 11:32:08 (permalink)

Synth is playing without being selected

I can't seem to figure out what's going on here. I'm not doing anything weird, and yet this keeps happening.
 
Whenever I click on a synth and start playing, another one plays instead. This only happens for two of them, and no others. I added a video link to what I mean here:
 
 
 
I'm having a hard time describing it, so I had to do this. It would be nice to just upload straight here than go through YouTube, but whatever gets the job done I guess....
Can someone help me with this?
 
UPDATE: My helpful link was removed, so I don't know what else to tell you now.
post edited by I-S3-O - 2016/12/27 12:25:40
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    57Gregy
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/27 12:46:35 (permalink)
    Welcome to the forum.
    Being new, you don't have enough posts to insert links.
    Check the inputs, outputs and channels of each MIDI track.

    Greg 
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    #2
    I-S3-O
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/27 16:55:52 (permalink)
    Thanks for responding.
    Here's the thing, though. It's random. Without me messing with anything, this happened.
    #3
    ampfixer
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 00:15:13 (permalink)
    You're going to have to explain a bit more for any meaningful help. There's not enough information.

    Regards, John 
     I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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    #4
    scook
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 00:34:55 (permalink)
    There are a couple of features that together may create unexpected synth playback.
     
    1. By default synths capable of passing MIDI data have the option enabled. This may either be disabled when inserting a synth using the appropriate setting in the "Insert Soft Synth Options" dialog or via the context menu for the synth in the synth rack.
    2. Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording "Always Echo Current MIDI Track" is enabled by default. When enabled, upon receiving focus, a MIDI/Instrument track with its input set to NONE will automatically switch to Omni.
    #5
    I-S3-O
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 00:56:57 (permalink)
    Ampfixer, the video would have been perfect for that, but I'm not veteran enough.
     
    Alright then. Here goes.
     
    I'm still to new music-making in DAWs, so I don't know anything concerning inputs, outputs, or buses. The only channels I've ever worked with were the ones from OpenMPT. That being said, concerning messing with any of that stuff in SONAR, I have not done it, unless Ctrl/Alt+ Up/Down/Left/Right Arrow does it as a shortcut.
     
    In my project I have about 7 seven tracks: Bass track from the Cakewalk Bass library, A Drum track from the Cakewalk Drum Kit library, about 5 synth tracks from the Z3TA+ 2 synth (the main culprits in question), a piano track, and one other Z3TA+ 2 synth track added out of frustration from the malfunctioning synths. The tracks in question are three Z3TA+ 2 synth tracks named Air Long , Air Short, and Whine. Air Long and Air Short are clones of each other, specifically Air Short being a clone from Air Long.
     
    This first started being a problem with Long and Short playing at the same time, even if only one of them was selected (i.e. I click on Short, press a key, and Long plays with it). Then, a couple exits and reopens later, they quit making noise and Whine plays in their stead. No matter which one of the three I had selected Whine would always play. On top of that, whenever I tried to click on the synth icon next to the Air tracks to open Z3TA+ 2 dialog window for them, it would always open up to the instance for Whine!
     
    Neither Solo nor mute was on for any of the tracks, and I haven't done anything fancy. Honestly, between the problems I've had with MC6 Touch, MC7 and this, I'm too scared to do anything right now. I just want to push a piano key and have this DAW work...consistently. I have not gotten that.
     
    I promise you, unless otherwise by nuance, I have not messed with anything existing outside the bounds of the Track Editor, Pattern Editor, and Staff Notation windows. About the only thing I've done was mess with the preferences so that it can pick up input from my mio MIDI receiver and output to headphones: that's it. And I must stress this: it was working without a hitch waaay before this, with me messing with nothing.
     
    Huh, I guess I could have just said all this at the beginning. I suppose I was too angry to think clearly about this.
    Is all this helpful?
    #6
    scook
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 01:03:09 (permalink)
    I-S3-O
     The tracks in question are three Z3TA+ 2 synth tracks named Air Long , Air Short, and Whine. Air Long and Air Short are clones of each other, specifically Air Short being a clone from Air Long.

    If these are instrument tracks created by cloning, that is a problem. Do not clone instrument tracks.
    #7
    I-S3-O
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 01:26:30 (permalink)
    If I shouldn't clone instrument tracks, then why is that an option?
    #8
    scook
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 01:33:25 (permalink)
    Do as you wish, keep in mind the note at the bottom of this page http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Arranging.06.html

    Note: When cloning an Instrument track, a new MIDI track is created and assigned to the same soft synth as the cloned instrument track.
    #9
    ampfixer
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 12:10:29 (permalink)
    I avoid creating simple instrument tracks because things can get confusing. If there are 3 midi tracks going to 3 instances of Z3ta it's easy to put each on it's own midi channel and prevent cross talk. If the 3 midi channels are going to a single instance of Z3ta then you will likely get interaction. Another thing that could cause interactions is if the tracks in question are being echo'd. Try turning off the echo function on each track and see what it does.

    Regards, John 
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    #10
    I-S3-O
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 12:44:45 (permalink)
    I wasn't saying that to be spiteful; I was asking a genuine question. What do you use that thing for, if not to copy tracks? Also, I'm not sure I understand the dire within the Note left at the bottom of the cloning page. What does it mean to have the same soft synth assigned to the cloned track that would merit never cloning a track?
     
    Also when I cloned it, I went in and edited each synth. I just used the other track's synth as a starting point.
    #11
    scook
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 13:25:05 (permalink)
    It may not be the problem but cloning instrument tracks is a big red flag. Cloning instrument tracks has been the subject of several lengthy threads. I use instrument tracks all the time. Their implementation has improved much over the years. That said, I avoid cloning them preferring to split the instrument track then clone the Audio and MIDI tracks as needed.
    #12
    ampfixer
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 17:03:48 (permalink)
    +1 Scook. Great advice.

    Regards, John 
     I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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    #13
    chuckebaby
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 17:37:49 (permalink)
    I avoid cloning Soft synths at all costs. Instead I use Track Templates (may even lead to the same problem). But they are just as fast. To be perfectly honest, 75% of my Projects are Audio So when I need to insert a synth I use the "Insert Synth" menu.

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    AllanH
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/28 19:12:57 (permalink)
    It's important to set the track input to the whatever your midi device is. This is a per-track setting. I generally set to "None" which most of the time only plays the currently selected track. Every so often an unrelated track also plays and when I look "none" has been changed to e.g. my main midi device. Not sure why that happens and if I'm not understanding how properly configure Sonar.

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    #15
    I-S3-O
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/29 00:21:28 (permalink)
    ampfixer
    I avoid creating simple instrument tracks because things can get confusing. If there are 3 midi tracks going to 3 instances of Z3ta it's easy to put each on it's own midi channel and prevent cross talk. If the 3 midi channels are going to a single instance of Z3ta then you will likely get interaction.

     Okay, how do I check to see whether or not this is happening?
     
    ampfixer
    Another thing that could cause interactions is if the tracks in question are being echo'd. Try turning off the echo function on each track and see what it does.

     
    I'm using SONAR Home, so the only options I see for this are Input Echo = On or Input Echo = Auto Thru. Which should I do?
     
    #16
    I-S3-O
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    Re: Synth is playing without being selected 2016/12/29 01:04:46 (permalink)
    I found out something new about the problem.
    I started up the project again, and it was working just fine: nothing weird. So, I continued work as normal. After some editing I found that it happened again, so I started getting frustrated.
     
    At the time, my tracks were organized in the following manner:
     
    Bass
    Drum Kit
    Echo (Z3TA+ 2)
    Whine (Z3TA+ 2)
    Air Long (Z3TA+2)
    Air Short (Z3TA+2)
    Piano
    High Air (Z3TA+ 2)
     
    High Air was added to replace Air Short, which was the first track to go.
     
    In an effort to remove the Short/Long issue, I decided to remove the Air Short track and make a brand new synth. However, at this point, I was having problems with two different tracks trying to use the same preset (annoying). Eventually I got that ironed out, but I still don't know about this input/output stuff. I just kept explicitly selecting the track, then clicking on the Synth button in the UI, as opposed to just clicking straight on the synth button, which seems to cause all kinds of chaos and confusion.
     
    After that, by a means I still haven't managed to discover, it happened again; Whine had taken over once more. I got sick of that, and started removing tracks I wasn't using, starting with that stupid thing. Then the strangest thing happened. When I tried to play Long again, Echo's sound would play instead. So, I removed Echo, then tried to play again. I was detecting a pattern at this point, so I started lower on the keyboard (Bass C) This time, a drum hit came out. It seems like Long is directly linked to whatever track is directly above it. However, I still don't see anything in the UI depicting such an attachment. Additionally, I have not cloned that many tracks, so it doesn't seem like it's a cloning issue anymore.
     
    To be fair, I started messing around the Matrix view, but since I didn't really know what I was doing, I deleted the only row I made.
     
    What the heck have I done to merit such behavior?
    #17
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