spacey
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I was born a rambling man
that doesn't build acoustic guitars. I probably won't. I would need to purchase many tools. I can say that I have purchased very many tools needed for electric guitar and it's an investment with no recovery- it's a hobby that doesn't justify expansion.
With that said; It doesn't prevent me from learning.
I have owned and played many acoustic guitars. I didn't take the time to know about them because I didn't care. My only concerns were how they played and how they sounded.
There is a debate about how much wood affects the electric guitars sound. It's a debate because nobody can prove anything.
The importance of wood is greater with acoustics. The construction of acoustics is important.
I think there are basic points of interest that help in selecting either for purchase. Naturally how they feel and sound are for each to determine.
What I wanted to know more about is acoustic guitars. What are the major questions or concerns one may have after they determine that they do like the feel and sound of an acoustic?
Price. Yes, I think that is first. So what exactly am I paying for? What makes this one cost so much more than that one?
Well that can get to be a lengthy list of answers so I'm going to avoid "name" and consider "construction" since I have more interest in the materials used and construction of.
Well that too can become a very lengthy list and I need to keep it "basic". Ok, so what are the "basics"?
1. Laminate vs Solid wood.
2. Type of wood.
Acoustics can be all solid. Acoustics may have a combination of laminate and solid woods.
Laminated acoustics are (or should be) cheaper.
The top (and most important part of an acoustics sound) may be laminated or solid. How does one know?
The manufacturer may say; "solid wood construction" - indicating that the top, sides and back are solid. Not laminated. That is the surest way of determination- a salesperson may be mistaken or just doesn't know.
Looking at the edge of the sound hole for continuing grain pattern thru the depth is a possibility. Also checking grain pattern on the sides and back ...if they are different- laminated.
So what's the biggy with all this laminated vs solid wood?
Laminated is going to be tougher but it's not going to improve with age.
Solid is going to resonate/sound better and will improve with age.
That is why many pro players keep their solid wood acoustics at home.
There are very good laminated guitars - good enough for the road but they will not be in the group of solid wood acoustics.
Cedar and Spruce tops are the two big players. Taste is the choice.
Backs and sides - many choices. Note of interest are two big ones; Indian and Brazilian Rosewoods.
In 1992 it became illegal to harvest and export Brazilian Rosewood. The trees cut down before 1992 can be used. Wood grain of Brazilian is favored over Indian Rosewood.
Now there are other woods being used for the backs and sides.
I mention this because one may want to hold on to that old acoustic they have.
Wood grain of the top of an acoustic is a major factor. It is probably what determines the price difference in higher end acoustics.
The trick there is; Has the manufacturer made the correct determination of the quality of that top?
If one is not spending over $800.00 for the guitar then they are probably fine just determining that they are satisfied by the sound and feel. Over that and it may be worth while to pay close attention and make sure they are getting that extra quality of wood they are paying for. Best by excellent grain, solid and making that sound.
Maybe the rambling has some value...
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 08:34:20
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I have no answers for you Mike, but I love reading anything you post when you're talking about guitars 
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Moshkito
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 09:25:32
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Hi,
Loved reading that stuff.
The only weird thing for me, is how is it that they are all "the same shape" and no one tries different combinations of shapes, in order to get different acoustics or sounds. I'm guessing that the blue print is the same as the one 200, 300, or 400 years old?
It might end up being a different instrument, but that's like saying that some of those 1000 year old things would not sound good with electrics on them. We don't even KNOW what the thing sounds like without the electricity!
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
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jamesg1213
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 10:10:09
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Michael, I don't know the answers to those questions, but your post reminded me of a guitar that my friend Tim had built by Brook Guitars in Devon, England. They're deep in the English countryside (you even have a ford a stream to get to them!) and a large proportion of the woods they use have been sourced locally, cut and dried at their premises; sycamore, cherry, walnut and yew. I remember Tim's guitar had some 1000-year old English Bog Oak in the construction. It was a really beautiful guitar, sounded wonderful, and perfect for a folky finger-picked style. The pic doesn't really do it justice. 
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spacey
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 10:59:05
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Thanks Steve. That's cool James. The point I was trying to make was on what I think is the basic information that would help anybody looking to buy an acoustic. To keep it simple by knowing the main differences between the price groups. The simplicity being the two main differences of construction methods using laminate or solid woods and then the real tricky one- knowing that a big investment cost is based on "quality of the wood". I think the person spending @ $800.00 and knowing about what is and what is not laminated can make an informed decision. Over that amount they need to be careful. They need to find out if the quality woods are exactly that. If there seems to be questions about my post that is due to my lack of writing skills. I really don't have any questions. My writing was to take some of "mystery" about acoustics construction and "marketing" and share a point of view that may be or worth based solely on the very basics of the acoustic guitar. And your post James is a great example of using different woods. Combined with my post one may see that even though they may have used unfamiliar or what one may consider to be unconventional woods the construction methods of laminated vs solid wood is still a question to be answered and known...the way I see it. I see it as one of the most important basic considerations in building the instrument. Mosh...I don't know. I think there have been many design changes made by luthiers. Popularity and what works...I'm not going there. I'm not qualified and I'm just opinionated. I know there are members here that have invested in very fine acoustic instruments, such as Randy, that perform with them. It will be interesting when they post and possibly share there their points of interests and factors that help them decide the value of their choices. Edited with a strike through...because it's a mistake I make that I hate to make. Something about thinking and typing that goes south. I don't know.
post edited by spacey - 2016/12/28 14:14:19
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bapu
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 11:09:26
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spacey
My only concerns were how they played and how they sounded.
This ^^^^ for me to this day still.
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jamesg1213
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 11:09:52
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Moshkito
Hi,
Loved reading that stuff.
The only weird thing for me, is how is it that they are all "the same shape" and no one tries different combinations of shapes, in order to get different acoustics or sounds. I'm guessing that the blue print is the same as the one 200, 300, or 400 years old?
It might end up being a different instrument, but that's like saying that some of those 1000 year old things would not sound good with electrics on them. We don't even KNOW what the thing sounds like without the electricity!
I suppose, to be described as an 'acoustic guitar' the shape will always have to meet certain criteria. If different sounds are required, there are lots of other stringed and fretted instruments to choose from; lutes, mandolins, ouds, bouzoukis, citterns, banjos etc etc.
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spacey
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 11:32:33
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bapu
spacey
My only concerns were how they played and how they sounded.
This ^^^^ for me to this day still.
I've changed. Justifying what I'm getting for my money has ruined me. It's made things that use to be fun, work.
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spacey
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 12:35:20
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Here is hoping it will help make more sense of my post. Scenario for example; If I'm looking for a very good sounding, TUFF guitar for the road then I may find a better deal (less money) and a good guitar for the road by considering a laminated acoustic. If I'm looking for a very good sounding guitar that the sound will improve with age but require taking special care of then a solid wood investment may be my best choice. I posted this because if one may be thinking of purchasing an acoustic there are some- what I think are- very important differences in the way they are constructed and important characteristics/construct detail that are not "personal preference" in the sense of adornments/inlays, nut material, etc.
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drewfx1
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 13:54:14
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2016/12/28 14:08:42
Moshkito
The only weird thing for me, is how is it that they are all "the same shape" and no one tries different combinations of shapes, in order to get different acoustics or sounds. I'm guessing that the blue print is the same as the one 200, 300, or 400 years old?
There are a few main factors here: 1. Tradition - people want an instrument to sound like they think it should sound so you end up with variations on very successful examples - flattop steel string acoustics perfected by Martin ~100 years ago, archtop designs that are now more associated with big jazz electrics but that started as acoustics with pickups added, classic resonator guitar designs, etc. Innovations like Ovation became known for are not always well received in part precisely because they just don't sound like a good Martin. 2. Practicality - if you want to sit and play comfortably, an arched waist on the side sits nicely on your knee. And if you want to use bent wood for the sides, you can't have too sharp corners - otherwise you're looking at braced glue joints 3. Physics - the volume of the interior and the size of the soundhole directly affect the low frequency response. The shape, size, materials and bracing of the top affect the high frequency response. We want the resonances of the instrument to highlight desirable frequencies without resonating strongly at just certain notes/specific frequencies - i.e. we don't want flat frequency response, but we don't want certain individual notes to be dead or resonate like crazy either. Some good overview of acoustic guitar (and other instrument) physics here: http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/guitar
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 15:11:50
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This thread certainly has the possibility of going places I'm gonna keep an eye on it ... Having said that I'm gonna introduce a determining factor that many people today will probably overlook  IMHO , from a craftsmanship point of view , what an acoustic guitar represents today is a far cry from what an acoustic guitar represented from the point of an old school luthier from yesteryear .... Some-where's over the course of recent times ( 50 years maybe ? ) both the market place and our general society has changed to the point where the demands of the market place have conveniently swept under the carpet the true value of what represented a luthiers true calling in life ... The Ability to Breath a new Life into the woods he or she chose to make a unique expression of an acoustic guitar that will inspire the player to new untold levels of musical creativity .... This relationship is one of synergy ... It consists of what the best nature has offered in woods, what the best craftsmanship and guitar design the luthier has offered in design and his guitar build work ethic, and of great importance , what the best the player has to offer as a player who desires an instrument that will help them express their best music ...not hinder it Jame's story of Tim's guitar is a perfect example of my previously expressed opinion .... The forces of Nature have been combined with the genius of the luthier to give the talent of the player in this case Tim the Artist a true tool and instrument too express his talent ... Not every guitar player in life is that Lucky woof woof , that's doggie talk for good wood  Kenny
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drewfx1
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 15:35:37
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kennywtelejazz
IMHO , from a craftsmanship point of view , what an acoustic guitar represents today is a far cry from what an acoustic guitar represented from the point of an old school luthier from yesteryear ....
Some-where's over the course of recent times ( 50 years maybe ? ) both the market place and our general society has changed to the point where the demands of the market place have conveniently swept under the carpet the true value of what represented a luthiers true calling in life ...
The Ability to Breath a new Life into the woods he or she chose to make a unique expression of an acoustic guitar that will inspire the player to new untold levels of musical creativity ....
This relationship is one of synergy ...
It consists of what the best nature has offered in woods, what the best craftsmanship and guitar design the luthier has offered in design and his guitar build work ethic, and of great importance , what the best the player has to offer as a player who desires an instrument that will help them express their best music ...not hinder it
Amusingly, I'm guessing you didn't intend that to sound exactly like something a marketing shill would write, but... 
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacey
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 16:30:23
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drewfx1
kennywtelejazz
IMHO , from a craftsmanship point of view , what an acoustic guitar represents today is a far cry from what an acoustic guitar represented from the point of an old school luthier from yesteryear ....
Some-where's over the course of recent times ( 50 years maybe ? ) both the market place and our general society has changed to the point where the demands of the market place have conveniently swept under the carpet the true value of what represented a luthiers true calling in life ...
The Ability to Breath a new Life into the woods he or she chose to make a unique expression of an acoustic guitar that will inspire the player to new untold levels of musical creativity ....
This relationship is one of synergy ...
It consists of what the best nature has offered in woods, what the best craftsmanship and guitar design the luthier has offered in design and his guitar build work ethic, and of great importance , what the best the player has to offer as a player who desires an instrument that will help them express their best music ...not hinder it
Amusingly, I'm guessing you didn't intend that to sound exactly like something a marketing shill would write, but...
It also doesn't address whether or not the luthier laminated the sides, back, top, or used solid wood and if so exactly where. IMO the single most important facts of the build have not been mentioned. It is such a major factor that it would be very easy for one to purchase at a price level they assume reflects solid wood when it may not at all. James did not mention that either. A very good looking and very good sounding acoustic does not indicate the construction methods. One must know so they can make educated cost comparisons to help assure they know exactly what they are paying for and why. IMO that is the starting point. "Does the guitar have any laminated wood?". If so, how much? Then all the other questions can be addressed. Until that is known...place your bet because you just don't know how to value an acoustic guitar. Hang on to your money until you do unless you just like to gamble.
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slartabartfast
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 16:43:37
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The rosewood issue has the potential to be a real problem. Not only is it illegal to harvest or ship new rosewood into or out of the US, but old rosewood guitars must be registered at considerable expense in order to be able to clear customs on your return if you take them out of the country, and in some cases must have a visa to enter foreign countries. So if you plan to do a lot of international travel, you might want to sell your old high end guitar to someone more sedentary. https://www.ibma.org/press/archives/you-cant-take-my-guitar-what-every-traveling-musician-should-know-about-cites
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jamesg1213
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 16:56:26
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spacey
It also doesn't address whether or not the luthier laminated the sides, back, top, or used solid wood and if so exactly where.
IMO the single most important facts of the build have not been mentioned. It is such a major factor that it would be very easy for one to purchase at a price level they assume reflects solid wood when it may not at all.
James did not mention that either.
I didn't mention it because I have no idea, it wasn't my guitar. I just put the story in there because I was reminded of it.
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spacey
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 17:20:38
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slartabartfast
The rosewood issue has the potential to be a real problem. Not only is it illegal to harvest or ship new rosewood into or out of the US, but old rosewood guitars must be registered at considerable expense in order to be able to clear customs on your return if you take them out of the country, and in some cases must have a visa to enter foreign countries. So if you plan to do a lot of international travel, you might want to sell your old high end guitar to someone more sedentary.
https://www.ibma.org/press/archives/you-cant-take-my-guitar-what-every-traveling-musician-should-know-about-cites
Let's take a guitarist that has one of each; He's getting prepared to go on the road performing. He must decide to take only one acoustic. Which one should he take? They both sound and play very good. Why would anyone in their right mind take the solid wood - NO MATTER what kinds of woods were used? They wouldn't. Only the ignorant person would. They would take the laminated one. It's the tuff one. It's not going to get any better than what it is and will stand up better to "the road". "old high end guitar" - that was the key. It represents "solid wood". My advise- No reason to sell that high end guitar. Know which one is right to travel with is.
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smallstonefan
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 17:31:00
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 17:45:12
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drewfx1
kennywtelejazz
IMHO , from a craftsmanship point of view , what an acoustic guitar represents today is a far cry from what an acoustic guitar represented from the point of an old school luthier from yesteryear ....
Some-where's over the course of recent times ( 50 years maybe ? ) both the market place and our general society has changed to the point where the demands of the market place have conveniently swept under the carpet the true value of what represented a luthiers true calling in life ...
The Ability to Breath a new Life into the woods he or she chose to make a unique expression of an acoustic guitar that will inspire the player to new untold levels of musical creativity ....
This relationship is one of synergy ...
It consists of what the best nature has offered in woods, what the best craftsmanship and guitar design the luthier has offered in design and his guitar build work ethic, and of great importance , what the best the player has to offer as a player who desires an instrument that will help them express their best music ...not hinder it
Amusingly, I'm guessing you didn't intend that to sound exactly like something a marketing shill would write, but...
I put it out there . You can read into it and take it anyway you want too ... I'm Pro Guitar Luthier..not big box guitar company I sincerely hope you enjoyed your short brush with Greatness  Kenny
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spacey
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 18:57:20
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I think the topic of laminated vs solid wood may be a questionable topic for this forum.
I feel like it's to easy to drift and bump into "feelings" rather than staying on topic with known facts about the two different construction methods- pro's, con's and pricing.
I do apologize and think I've expressed all I care to about the topic.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/28 23:38:24
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spacey
I think the topic of laminated vs solid wood may be a questionable topic for this forum.
I feel like it's to easy to drift and bump into "feelings" rather than staying on topic with known facts about the two different construction methods- pro's, con's and pricing.
I do apologize and think I've expressed all I care to about the topic.
Yeah spacey ? so that's how you honestly feel ? If that is indeed the case , while your on your way out the door in a thread you started . You can go take a chomp for all I care Kenny PS , I don't do passive aggressive .. this info has been provided for anyone who finds the need or has the desire to play games w me ....
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/12/29 00:13:48
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spacey
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/29 05:20:19
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kennywtelejazz
I put it out there .
You can read into it and take it anyway you want too ...
Kenny
Pretty much says it all. Honestly Kenny, I'm done with this BS.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/29 09:28:57
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spacey
kennywtelejazz
I put it out there .
You can read into it and take it anyway you want too ...
Kenny
Pretty much says it all. Honestly Kenny, I'm done with this BS.
The only one here spreading a load of BS here in this thread is you spacey .. You quote one little article of Bob Taylor 's to back up your scattered point of view that lacks focus and now all of a sudden that makes you an expert ? ...give me a break ...lol You can fool some of the folks around that may have never collected high end money guitars like I have done for decades Or you can try to run your BS on folks who haven't gotten the chance to play fine examples of them through their local stores or friends that may own them ... You can't fool me by all means you can feel free to try .... I have noticed a tendency in every thread of yours I have read recently... One , you act as if everything you say is the gospel .... Two , if someone doesn't agree with you or has a different point of view , you start acting like a little pussie who brought that bat and the baseball to the field who then all of a sudden starts threatening the people that are playing that you are gonna leave ...go ahead leave I don't care ...as far as I'm concerned you don't know $hit ... That you have proven to me a countless number of times ...in a way it's too bad because I used to like you in the past .. Kenny
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spacey
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/29 10:16:03
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kennywtelejazz
spacey
kennywtelejazz
I put it out there .
You can read into it and take it anyway you want too ...
Kenny
Pretty much says it all. Honestly Kenny, I'm done with this BS.
The only one here spreading a load of BS here in this thread is you spacey ..
You quote one little article of Bob Taylor 's to back up your scattered point of view that lacks focus and now all of a sudden that makes you an expert ? ...give me a break ...lol
You can fool some of the folks around that may have never collected high end money guitars like I have done for decades
Or you can try to run your BS on folks who haven't gotten the chance to play fine examples of them through their local stores or friends that may own them ...
You can't fool me
I have noticed a tendency in every thread of yours I have read recently...
One , you act as if everything you say is the gospel ....
Two , if someone doesn't agree with you or has a different point of view , you start acting like a little pussie who brought that bat and the baseball to the field who then all of a sudden starts threatening the people that are playing that you are gonna leave ...go ahead leave I don't care ...as far as I'm concerned you don't know $hit ...
That you have proven to me a countless number of times ...in a way it's too bad because I used to like you in the past ..
Kenny
"I think the topic of laminated vs solid wood may be a questionable topic for this forum. I feel like it's to easy to drift and bump into "feelings" rather than staying on topic with known facts about the two different construction methods- pro's, con's and pricing." "I do apologize and think I've expressed all I care to about the topic." Kenny you have confirmed my statements. The topic was the differences between laminated and solid body acoustic guitars that I specifically mentioned I was interested in learning about and was sharing what I gathered so far. Also specifically mentioned I don't build them and probably never will because of not being able to justify the added expense to my shop. Do I tire of threads losing focus on the topic? Yes I do. If they can't stay on topic it becomes confusing or such as this one. It drifts and bumps into "feelings". I fail to understand exactly why communication, sharing of ideas, about things we have in common, such as guitars, can get to where this one is. I do know that it happens often between people in this forum and is something that ruins it. For me the deal is I don't think it's something that can be explained and/or corrected to avoid. I think the only solution is to not participate. It seems that trying to de-escalate a problem thread by ending it is not an option that works. It seems that the only real way to avoid the issue(s) is to not participate in the forum. I've had a lot of vacation time in the last quarter of this year and wanted to spend some of it here with old friends -so I did. This is the last week of my freedom from the day job and although it's not the way I wanted to end my time here and get back to such a busy life - it does however show me that there is always a bright side of things LOL. Coming back after being away for so long was for the most part fun and I enjoyed talking with a few old friends but all in all...it's not something I'll be doing again. Just doesn't work.
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Randy P
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/29 11:41:43
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Since my name was mentioned, I'll post a few thoughts on acoustic guitars.
I have and have had some pretty nice ones over the years. The Martin 000-28 I custom ordered a few years ago was a long process of deciding what model I wanted, what woods and finish I desired. Being left handed, made it virtually impossible to actually play the ones that intrigued me. I did a lot of reading and watching videos. I had to give thought to what I would be doing with the guitar. Would it be for studio only? Would I ever play live with it? How would it record? Did I want electronics or not?
Once I had it narrowed down, I got lucky and found a new 000-28 in a small guitar shop about 30 miles from home. I asked a good friend of mine who is a great player and right handed to take a trip with me and play it for me. Once I heard it, and asked him about the playability, it made my decision comfortable.
My Martin, while only a few years old has been sounding better and better as the months go by. I have an emotional attachment to it now that just grows fonder every time I play it.
Michael mentioned the touring aspect when making a purchase decision. I've never let that really enter into my decision making process, and I can't think of any one I know who has. I've seen some pretty big name artists that tour with some very expensive guitars both vintage and new. I saw Joe Bonamassa and during the electric part of his set, he played a 59 Les Paul that had to be worth somewhere around $500000. He then played an older Gibson acoustic J45 that was obviously a vintage guitar and those can be equally pricey.
Acts like that have their instruments well looked after and insured for touring.
As for the modern guitars, when I took the VIP tour at the Martin factory, they had some of the laminate Mexican made guitars there on display. The way the guy explained it to me was that they had certain models that they were able to replicate using laminates and using the bracing designs that are unique to some models of the hand made Martins and designed a process to mass produce them. This made a Martin guitar that was available to the masses at a price point that was fairly affordable. They sound and play very well, but are obviously an instrument that will not appreciate in value like a hand made all wood Martin.
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jamesg1213
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/29 11:53:55
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Randy P
Michael mentioned the touring aspect when making a purchase decision. I've never let that really enter into my decision making process, and I can't think of any one I know who has.
Been thinking about that today, and I'm pretty sure Willy Porter (for example) plays custom-made solid wood Bischoff acoustics on tour. Also I note that Martin are using the word 'layered' instead of 'laminated' for their lower end models...
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: I was born a rambling man
2016/12/29 16:19:12
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spacey
"I think the topic of laminated vs solid wood may be a questionable topic for this forum.
I feel like it's to easy to drift and bump into "feelings" rather than staying on topic with known facts about the two different construction methods- pro's, con's and pricing."
"I do apologize and think I've expressed all I care to about the topic."
Kenny you have confirmed my statements.
The topic was the differences between laminated and solid body acoustic guitars that I specifically mentioned I was interested in learning about and was sharing what I gathered so far.
Also specifically mentioned I don't build them and probably never will because of not being able to justify the added expense to my shop.
Do I tire of threads losing focus on the topic? Yes I do. If they can't stay on topic it becomes confusing or such as this one. It drifts and bumps into "feelings".
I fail to understand exactly why communication, sharing of ideas, about things we have in common, such as guitars, can get to where this one is. I do know that it happens often between people in this forum and is something that ruins it.
For me the deal is I don't think it's something that can be explained and/or corrected to avoid. I think the only solution is to not participate.
It seems that trying to de-escalate a problem thread by ending it is not an option that works. It seems that the only real way to avoid the issue(s) is to not participate in the forum.
I've had a lot of vacation time in the last quarter of this year and wanted to spend some of it here with old friends -so I did. This is the last week of my freedom from the day job and although it's not the way I wanted to end my time here and get back to such a busy life - it does however show me that there is always a bright side of things LOL.
Coming back after being away for so long was for the most part fun and I enjoyed talking with a few old friends but all in all...it's not something I'll be doing again. Just doesn't work.
I'm not gonna go tit for tat w you .... My time is very important to me and there is no payday of any value or money in it for me The thing is , every thread I have ever started here in The Coffee House has had unexpected twists and turns regarding some of the posters who have shown up ... The styles and forms of communication some posters have chosen to express. are unique to themselves and I have come to expect that certain people will behave and act in a way that is consistent with their nature and personal temperament . We must be different people because I have never called any one out on what they have said unless I have felt it was directed at me personally or if it was done in a way that I have felt was inappropriate ... I'm not here to Micro Manage what people say or express...What ever they choose to say or express is a reflection of them not me ... Having said that , I will give you credit where due ..once the RUB between us took of , You did attempt to take the high road by putting how you feel out there and you certainly have that right Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/12/29 23:46:49
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