mikebeam
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 288
- Joined: 2014/01/03 11:57:45
- Status: offline
Digital Distribution Question
Curious to hear people's thoughts - this isn't a serious consideration of mine, but the idea has been festering and I want to hear what it's like out there in the real world...
I've recorded and sold a CD with my Acoustic Blues and Roots duo through CD Baby - I sprung for the digital distribution even though I knew I was probably going to sell more physical CDs at shows and/or use them for Promo material to get more gigs. So I have a little bit of experience with CD Baby.
Since I've been making a lot of electronic music and been producing what would probably fall into the "Synthwave" genre. (My gigs as a early 1900s blues man are paying for my soft synths! ;)) Where I live, my lifestyle, and my age - I'm not going to be going out and hitting the clubs with live acts. But I've found a lot of people on Spotify that seem to be faceless musicians from the corners of the world. They also don't seem to be playing live very much. They are, for the most part, small time acts, but seem to have a niche following...
How realistic is it to produce music at home and put it out there on Spotify, or other online outfits? Make a little extra (not looking to quit my day job, but it would nice to have some extra cashflow for the studio). Is this even possible?
If you have done this - or know anyone that has - point me in a direction. I'm just curious. I might never even try - but I'd like to know other's experiences...
|
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10037
- Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
- Location: SL,UT
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2016/12/30 19:17:05
(permalink)
I'M ON SPOTIFY.... thru cdbaby.... and i get a regular paycheck from them. i think, if you divide a thousand by a million, that's what i get. 
|
eph221
Max Output Level: -28.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4665
- Joined: 2014/12/22 05:06:50
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2016/12/30 19:29:30
(permalink)
there's so much competition you have to do something really strange or weird to get the millenials attention. Have you thought of getting a bunch of helium balloons and attaching them to a lawn chair? Then you can float above everyone with advertising for your spotify. Just a thought.
|
mikebeam
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 288
- Joined: 2014/01/03 11:57:45
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2016/12/31 00:28:44
(permalink)
Ha! Yeah - I suspected as much. I've made a total of $40 in two years in digital distribution sales... But I figured someone out there must be making something...
I'm also curious - are you able to release an album entirely digital? I mean, if I've earned $40 and it costs less than that - why not?
|
slartabartfast
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5289
- Joined: 2005/10/30 01:38:34
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2016/12/31 00:49:34
(permalink)
At the height of the CD golden age, people playing small clubs would pray that they would somehow be noticed by a "talent scout" and get the recording contract that would be the chance to be heard by the world. There were probably hundreds of thousands of regularly working musicians shut out of contention by that hurdle. Of the thousands of recordings released every year, a couple of hundred would get regular airplay and sales, the rest of the unsold CD's would moulder in the basements of winners who had once had a contract and a one or two release career. The competition was fierce, and the opportunities were limited to those who professional critics believed had a decent chance of making hits, and earning them bonuses at the recording companies.
In the digital age, the barrier to entry can be surmounted by anyone. Literally anyone. That includes people who could never get a job playing in a bar or fill a hat by busking. Spotify presents twenty million songs to the public. Reportedly eighty percent have been played at least once, implying that four million have never been played at all. Apparently there are millions of musicians who have the wherewithal to post songs there who do not even have any friends or relatives who would be interested in their work. Imagine walking into a craft fair with that many booths or an art exhibit with that many paintings or listening to twenty million songs to find out which ones are worth a listen. It is not that this venue does not offer any real hope of granting wealth, it is that it does not offer any real opportunity to connect with the public for the vast majority of the people involved. A busker can expect to be heard by a couple of hundred listeners a day if he has a good spot and can evade the cops, and he will certainly expect to get a bigger paycheck than the median independant artist who is paying an "artist aggregator" like CD Baby to put their stuff there.
Even if you want to give your music away, there is little chance that it will get a significant audience. Spotify and its ilk are in competition with free music services like YouTube ,which was the largest by volume distributor of free music even before the introduction of YouTube Music. Without someone pointing the listener to a particular offering in this vast wasteland, there is little hope that any particular recording will be heard. Arguably, posting free music, and providing links to it, may be a viable option for a musician who just wants to be heard by his friends and fans or to provide a sample of his work to a prospective employer or use it in his only slightly less hopeless self-promotional strategy. The downside of course, especially for a singer songwriter, is that the terms of service of most of the free to post services are so overbroad that they give any listener the right to create derivative works of his songs under a license that cannot be revoked, essentially vitiating the artist's copyrights, while claiming to leave them in the artist's possession. Since the paid services need to preserve the rights to the work so they can profit from them, they, and the artist aggregators, are usually more careful about what they take.
|
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 86000
- Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
- Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2016/12/31 02:26:57
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby jamesg1213 2016/12/31 05:48:41
slart, TL;DR but I'm sure what is contained would be considered a "bummer". 
|
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 86000
- Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
- Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2016/12/31 02:27:36
(permalink)
OK, I lied. I did read it. And....... it was a bummer.
|
jamesg1213
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 21760
- Joined: 2006/04/18 14:42:48
- Location: SW Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2016/12/31 05:54:23
(permalink)
...and yet..I see plenty of young (and old) bands and musicians getting their music heard. There are many, many bloggers and music websites promoting new music, publishing their 'top 50 new albums' etc. When Nettlesmith produced a CD a couple of years ago we sent a copy to Folk Radio UK, who posted a review on their website. That one review garnered us over 1000 plays on Soundcloud. It's not all negative.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
|
Moshkito
Max Output Level: -37.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3765
- Joined: 2015/01/26 13:29:07
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2016/12/31 06:27:00
(permalink)
slartabartfast ...
Apparently there are millions of musicians who have the wherewithal to post songs there who do not even have any friends or relatives who would be interested in their work...
This has been like that since time immemorial. There are hundreds of composers over the years, whose stories have been in novels, movies, plays and ... everywhere else. It can be as bad as someone's wife who does not understand his music, he writes a Symphony for her, and she still leaves! It could be your children that just don't get it, just like you don't get their stuff. Regardless, one has to create because they want to satisfy their own inner curiosity and feel, and not someone else's taste or crap! PERIOD. I think, just like the old contracts of yesterday, that we .. WOWOW ... I'm gonna get famous! With the public, it's all a crap shoot, and 1 in a million, regardless of how good, bad or indifferent, although there is a massive audience for weirdness, quarks, strangeness and whatever charm you can smudge in it. The point there is that no one will EVER agree on what is good or bad, or right or wrong, and anything can get done, and in the end, it will feel like no one cares, but I sincerely doubt that some painters in the modern age, cared a lot for what they thought ... it's all about what they feel, and how eventually it turns out! Someone out there will find a meaning in it, even when you had none! AND THAT whole PART, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SPOTIFY, OR ANYTHING ELSE. And this is the real issue of the computer age. Spotify, Blowhairdry, Bapuemycry ... are nothing ... absolutely nothing ... than a DATABASE. Heck, the other website about "progressive" says that ... and it's like ... it's the fans because of the numbers. As such, a little report every day ... simple enough! ... can tell you that this one got 2 hits, that one 15 and that one 175 and that one 200,000, and the rest none ... and that big one will have 5 distributors at your door immediately before you are done with sex and coffee, and they will likely try to get you to go somewhere else where the delivery method might expand your possibilities. They might even have a small offer, like a tour of all the bars in Pluto! Or Texas! Or Nicaragua! I'm not sure how to get the "attention" any better than most anyone else here. I think that one has to blow out the audience, and sometimes give them the finger ... not that you have to have just about anything to get the attention, but when your own family is not interested (or have heard it a thousand times), then it's time for a kick in the butt somewhere. Are you going to stand up for your work? Or are you going to go back to the back room and disappear and change the song into something else again? You have to make a decision. You put blue paint and green paint on that canvas and did something with it ... and now because 2 people didn't care for it, you are going to put different paint over it? What does that accomplish? YOU decide!
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
|
mikebeam
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 288
- Joined: 2014/01/03 11:57:45
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2016/12/31 07:43:23
(permalink)
All great perspectives... @slart - it sounds like you are basically saying that there are new opportunities here in that the artist has more control and self-determination, however that does not mean that the process will be any easier... And in many ways there are new hurdles and it can be MORE difficult to get your music heard - but at least it's not at the will of the "Man"... I can see that... jamesg1213
...and yet..I see plenty of young (and old) bands and musicians getting their music heard. There are many, many bloggers and music websites promoting new music, publishing their 'top 50 new albums' etc. When Nettlesmith produced a CD a couple of years ago we sent a copy to Folk Radio UK, who posted a review on their website. That one review garnered us over 1000 plays on Soundcloud. It's not all negative.
I think I agree with this. I was surprised that my Acoustic Duo got some hits at all. I did very very little promotion beyond my small regional effort. (And where I live, busking is legal and in some places encouraged - and I make more money busking at the Farmer's market on Saturday mornings than I do in the Venues or selling CDs...) My music seems to have caught the attention of some people in Europe because I'm getting some listens out there... I think that's cool! I also know that I'm listening to many bands on Spotify that have less than a 1000 listens and found them through bloggers or by browsing Spotify... Makes me think it might be worth putting out an album digitally (If it's up to snuff musically)... If I could make up the price of digital distribution, I'd say it's worth it... Has anyone done that? If so, what service did you use?
|
mikebeam
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 288
- Joined: 2014/01/03 11:57:45
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2016/12/31 07:47:16
(permalink)
Moshkito
I'm not sure how to get the "attention" any better than most anyone else here. I think that one has to blow out the audience, and sometimes give them the finger ... not that you have to have just about anything to get the attention, but when your own family is not interested (or have heard it a thousand times), then it's time for a kick in the butt somewhere.
Are you going to stand up for your work? Or are you going to go back to the back room and disappear and change the song into something else again? You have to make a decision. You put blue paint and green paint on that canvas and did something with it ... and now because 2 people didn't care for it, you are going to put different paint over it? What does that accomplish? YOU decide!
Definitely agree with this! I'm not looking to change the music I'm doing... I'm fine producing music that will never be heard but my three or four friends who like this stuff (my wife won't even listen to it! ;) ). One of the biggest reasons I was thinking about this was to try to connect with others who might appreciate it... It would be nice to know that someone was actually enjoying it. It makes a huge difference busking when someone gives me a genuine thumbs up - I don't even care if they put money in the bucket...
|
eph221
Max Output Level: -28.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4665
- Joined: 2014/12/22 05:06:50
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2016/12/31 20:32:07
(permalink)
Moshkito
slartabartfast ...
Apparently there are millions of musicians who have the wherewithal to post songs there who do not even have any friends or relatives who would be interested in their work...
This has been like that since time immemorial. There are hundreds of composers over the years, whose stories have been in novels, movies, plays and ... everywhere else. It can be as bad as someone's wife who does not understand his music, he writes a Symphony for her, and she still leaves! It could be your children that just don't get it, just like you don't get their stuff. Regardless, one has to create because they want to satisfy their own inner curiosity and feel, and not someone else's taste or crap! PERIOD.
I think, just like the old contracts of yesterday, that we .. WOWOW ... I'm gonna get famous!
With the public, it's all a crap shoot, and 1 in a million, regardless of how good, bad or indifferent, although there is a massive audience for weirdness, quarks, strangeness and whatever charm you can smudge in it. The point there is that no one will EVER agree on what is good or bad, or right or wrong, and anything can get done, and in the end, it will feel like no one cares, but I sincerely doubt that some painters in the modern age, cared a lot for what they thought ... it's all about what they feel, and how eventually it turns out! Someone out there will find a meaning in it, even when you had none!
AND THAT whole PART, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SPOTIFY, OR ANYTHING ELSE.
And this is the real issue of the computer age. Spotify, Blowhairdry, Bapuemycry ... are nothing ... absolutely nothing ... than a DATABASE. Heck, the other website about "progressive" says that ... and it's like ... it's the fans because of the numbers.
As such, a little report every day ... simple enough! ... can tell you that this one got 2 hits, that one 15 and that one 175 and that one 200,000, and the rest none ... and that big one will have 5 distributors at your door immediately before you are done with sex and coffee, and they will likely try to get you to go somewhere else where the delivery method might expand your possibilities. They might even have a small offer, like a tour of all the bars in Pluto! Or Texas! Or Nicaragua!
I'm not sure how to get the "attention" any better than most anyone else here. I think that one has to blow out the audience, and sometimes give them the finger ... not that you have to have just about anything to get the attention, but when your own family is not interested (or have heard it a thousand times), then it's time for a kick in the butt somewhere.
Are you going to stand up for your work? Or are you going to go back to the back room and disappear and change the song into something else again? You have to make a decision. You put blue paint and green paint on that canvas and did something with it ... and now because 2 people didn't care for it, you are going to put different paint over it? What does that accomplish? YOU decide!
Mosh I'm an ARTISTE! But seriously those professional schools, though they have very useful information need to be realistic about job prospects. I got sucked into paralegalism with one. Best money I ever spent, but it didn't lead to a job. (Admittedly it was during a time of a superfluity of lawyers out of work) A legal practice is the last place this wide mouthed mason should be.
post edited by eph221 - 2017/01/02 12:40:53
*Q-TIPS ARE FUZZY!!* Is a lumineer a new dental appliance? i7 2.5 ghz 32GB RAM WINDOWS 10 My Ass Cubase 9.5
|
slartabartfast
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5289
- Joined: 2005/10/30 01:38:34
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2017/01/01 07:36:59
(permalink)
mikebeam
All great perspectives...
@slart - it sounds like you are basically saying that there are new opportunities here in that the artist has more control and self-determination, however that does not mean that the process will be any easier... And in many ways there are new hurdles and it can be MORE difficult to get your music heard - but at least it's not at the will of the "Man"... I can see that...
I think I am a lot more pessimistic than that. The fact that anyone can buy a lottery ticket is a lot of opportunities. The fact that the odds of any given ticket winning were previously mind boggling and have now risen to astronomical is the message I am sending. I am not defending the notoriously predatory practices of the big recording companies, but the "Man" never had all that much to do with it. There have always been people trying to get other people's music heard for their own (or their company's) benefit. The most successful of those people spent careers listening to other people's music and either trying to feed current trends or spot new ones and match the best performers and songwriters to an audience. In spite of their efforts, they were more likely to fail than to succeed, since the listening public got the real vote. But the process did serve to weed out, not only the also rans, but the never should have runs as well. Presented with a limited number of choices, the public still had more music than they could consume, let alone pay for, and an individual artist had a chance to have an significant, if not enormous, following. That can still happen, but notice that it has not to any major degree. The vast majority of digital plays still go to the artists anointed with a recording contract, even though many of those artists are complaining that they are getting ripped off by their contracts and the paltry pass-through from streaming royalties. The recording companies can shave a lot off their development costs by just checking the numbers to see if some band they have spent nothing to promote or nurture has gone viral, and then sign them up to a 360 deal with the promise of some real money and a significant promotion budget. Individual artists who are trying to break out are now in competition with an endless supply of international talent and face a fragmented market with dozens of styles splitting the listening public into cantons whose borders they cannot always cross. The average listener cannot be a supportive fan to a couple of thousand different acts, anymore than he can be a supportive friend to hundreds of digital friends he may have on FaceBook. In a way, the opportunities of digital listening, are akin to the 45 rpm era of one hit wonders, where a hit song did not in any way imply a career. But unlike the one hit wonders, there is no overarching medium of radio play to pick and pump the hits directly from the internet. Social media can raise the profile of a group, and direct the listeners' searches to the chosen, but discovery by a blogger is no more likely if he has to stumble by accident upon a star. And there is a growing industry of social media consulting that stands ready to create the illusion of popular acclaim by robo-posting fake raves for those who have the money to promote the artists from whom they profit, making the democracy of the netizens an overrated factor. The artist can certainly control his art, if he is not dependant on anyone for income or access to exposure, an opportunity always available to a "failure," and to rare mega-successes like the Beatles, who can thumb their noses at the suits and make new styles. Overmanaged acts, slavishly following the dictates of the bosses view of the public's taste, or the censor's tyranny, have usually been less than spectacularly successful in every era. But self determination is not implied by that freedom. If you want to do your art, you can, but if you want to have a large and dedicated audience, it is not entirely in your hands, now or in the past.
|
Moshkito
Max Output Level: -37.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3765
- Joined: 2015/01/26 13:29:07
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2017/01/01 12:34:48
(permalink)
eph221
...
Mosh I'm an ARTISTE! But seriously those professional schools, though they have very useful information need to be realistic about job prospects. I got sucked into paralegalism with one. Best money I ever spent, but it didn't lead to a job. (Admittedly it was during a time of a superfluity of lawyers out of work) A legal practice is the last place this wide mouthed mason should work.
There is one bad thing I have come across with folks I went to school with, that is disturbing to me. We all "learned something", and I, STILL, at my age, use many of those thoughts and ideas day in and out, because they were right and good. For some folks I have met, everything they ever learned was never worth anything, they just punched a ticket for my mom dad, I guess, and this is too weird for me. How can you go through life and not "feel" much and then expect to love something, when you did not teach yourself to love, and appreciate the good things, because a lack of perspective and appreciation for ANY learning is missing? In the end, every spot has a lesson that you can use, and work with in some way. It was the same thing at the cable company. I never felt that I was just punching a ticket, and most folks would say ... it's just a job! ... and when you do that there is not much that will be learnt and will sync in for later. It's all, about how you apply yourself, and your dedication. Right now, I admit, I am a bit lazy, but I am getting somewhat organized and ready to get going again in writing and many of the reviews I do. It was a mental break that was needed to study some of the inner thing and not feel that I was trapped in an escape of some sort, and not just spewing out words. I prefer that my words be worth a nickel, although I would be the first to not put a price on them whatsoever. If you "have it", you can share it. For most, "sharing" is not possible. I share what I can and know, even though sometimes, it seems that I don't, and that is possible as well and I admit it all the time. Be it digital, or printed, for me, is, pretty much, the same thing. If the time comes and the attention shows up, fine. If it doesn't, I know that I lived with what I knew and tried the best I could. The "what", at that point is not important!
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
|
eph221
Max Output Level: -28.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4665
- Joined: 2014/12/22 05:06:50
- Status: offline
Re: Digital Distribution Question
2017/01/01 12:41:10
(permalink)
I'm a gree. But, surprise surprise pedro: other's have different needs and wants than you! I got a lot out of just about every learning situation. I also,see how unusual that is. Whilst you don't mind spending gazillions on various pieces of paper, other's need more enticement. I'm glad that some of these skools are being held accountable in the form of lawsuits.
btw this is the definition of gree:
Archaic to give satisfaction for an injury. Scot. superiority, preeminence, or victory. Origin of gree. Middle English gre ; from Old French gré, a step ; from Classical Latin gradus, a step: see grade.
*Q-TIPS ARE FUZZY!!* Is a lumineer a new dental appliance? i7 2.5 ghz 32GB RAM WINDOWS 10 My Ass Cubase 9.5
|