Paul G
Max Output Level: -52 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2334
- Joined: 2004/03/17 21:38:03
- Location: Florida
- Status: offline
New Build - Bad Interface noise
This is pretty much a techie question so if it needs to be moved, please do so.
I've just built a new computer and did a fresh install of everything. After a few glitches, everything seemed to be working fine until I tried to actually record something. The way I track vocals is to turn the master fader down, route the vox track to the main outs and then turn up the headphone mix. What I discovered was that my old Delta 66 / Omni Studio, (PCI) was picking up some very nasty noise! I know it's old but please bear with me on this.
I have a backup Delta 66 / Omni and assuming that something was dying, I started to swap things out. No combination of components made any difference. What is very interesting is when I put the Delta back into my old computer and cranked the volume to max it was dead quiet! This would indicate that there is something wrong with my new computer or it just does not like this old interface.
After doing some research I find that I'm not alone with this issue. The most logical explanation centered around IRQ conflicts. On my new build, the audio interface is on IRQ 19 and is accompanied only by two instances of "Intel 82801 PCI Bridge - 244E. If I disable either of these, my interface IRQ reference disappears. I checked my old box and the audio interface shares a IRQ with the graphics card! I don't know much about this but it does sound strange.
Most of the other 'online solutions' leaned toward just getting a new interface but I'd rather not do that unless absolutely necessary. I'm going to contact Gigabyte but I'm guessing I won't get any useful info there. Any suggestions, advice, thoughts or sympathy would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Here's the new build specs:
MB = Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 7 LGA 1150 ATX Intel Motherboard
Processor = Intel Core i7-4790K Devil's Canyon Quad-Core 4.0 GHz LGA 1150
RAM = Crucial Ballistix Tactical 16GB
PSU = Corsair RMi RM850i, 850 Watt
Graphics = GIGABYTE Ultra Durable 2 Series GeForce GT 730
HDD = WD Black 1TB HDD 7200 RPM SATA 6 Gb/s 64MB Cache
Paul
|
dlion16
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 391
- Joined: 2007/03/08 15:21:55
- Location: East Quogue, NY
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/01/17 09:31:40
(permalink)
with all due respect, you really should get a new interface. penny wise, pound foolish not to spend another ~$200 on your new system. you can spend time trying to debug outdated gear or move on and make music.
i feel your pain. i just bought a new ssd and copy of win 10 for my i7. i have an old m-audio firewire 1814. in win 10, MS deletes legacy drivers on update, so i keep a folder with the m-audio driver and the 1394 legacy driver handy. at least twice a week i have to uninstall/reinstall... should be some sales around now. i'm looking at a focusrite scarlett 6i6. you should too. you'll thank me. best...
SONAR Platinum Lifetime 64-bit; Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd Gen.; KRK Rokit 5; ASUS P9X79; INTEL I7-3820 3.6 GHZ;850 WATT POWER SUPPLY; EVGA NVIDIA GTX560 TI 1GB;Windows 10 Home 64-bit; 32GB RAM;2 Internal SSD Drives, 3 External USB drives.
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/01/17 09:35:29
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby leegee 2017/01/17 09:38:37
The problem is likely the PCI slot itself. Most modern motherboards implement PCI slots using a bridge chip rendering the slots useless for old PCI audio interfaces.
|
slartabartfast
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5289
- Joined: 2005/10/30 01:38:34
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/01/17 13:27:52
(permalink)
"Picking up some very nasty noise," is a bit ambiguous. It suggests that the noise is electrical in origin, which is quite likely. If so it may be that the shielding/isolation of the circuits in the new machine is inadequate to keep the audio card from picking up electrical interference, or faulty. That is one good reason not to put the audio system inside the box. See if you can borrow a USB interface and test it. PCI bridging would more likely cause dropouts or failure to function at all than "noise."
|
Paul G
Max Output Level: -52 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2334
- Joined: 2004/03/17 21:38:03
- Location: Florida
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/01/17 14:16:48
(permalink)
dlion16
with all due respect, you really should get a new interface. penny wise, pound foolish not to spend another ~$200 on your new system. you can spend time trying to debug outdated gear or move on and make music.
i feel your pain. i just bought a new ssd and copy of win 10 for my i7. i have an old m-audio firewire 1814. in win 10, MS deletes legacy drivers on update, so i keep a folder with the m-audio driver and the 1394 legacy driver handy. at least twice a week i have to uninstall/reinstall... should be some sales around now. i'm looking at a focusrite scarlett 6i6. you should too. you'll thank me. best...
Thanks for the response David. Yes, I should but I've been holding off till I can afford a RME PCI interface. On the other hand, the USB interfaces are catching up with the PCI units speed-wise. My brother bought a 6i6 a while back and likes it. It would fill my needs. $250 everywhere I've looked. Paul
|
Paul G
Max Output Level: -52 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2334
- Joined: 2004/03/17 21:38:03
- Location: Florida
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/01/17 14:20:10
(permalink)
scook
The problem is likely the PCI slot itself. Most modern motherboards implement PCI slots using a bridge chip rendering the slots useless for old PCI audio interfaces.
Thanks Steve. If I understand correctly, a bridge clip is a physical piece of hardware on the MB and I don't see anything on this one. I have a support request into Gigabyte. We'll see if they any suggestions. Paul
|
fireberd
Max Output Level: -38 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3704
- Joined: 2008/02/25 14:14:28
- Location: Inverness, FL
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/01/17 14:35:25
(permalink)
The "bridge" from a PCI slot to the PCIe bus is a logic item. Could be a chip somewhere on the motherboard or the function could be built into the chip/controller for the PCIe bus.
Do you get any "noise" from the regular PC audio? (Realtek).
Old technology hardware may or may not work or work correctly in new motherboards.
I ran into a problem with my new built (Z170 motherboard). I need to use a 3.5 floppy diskette drive (to load MIDI files on to diskettes for a Hammond Organ). I got a new floppy drive but it won't connect to any USB port on my new motherboard because all the ports are either USB 3.0 or USB 3.1. I found it will connect to a USB 2.0 port and currently waiting for a PCIe USB 2.0 expansion card to be shipped.
"GCSG Productions" Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors, Ozone 5, Studio One 4.1 ISRC Registered Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
|
Paul G
Max Output Level: -52 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2334
- Joined: 2004/03/17 21:38:03
- Location: Florida
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/01/17 14:36:07
(permalink)
slartabartfast
"Picking up some very nasty noise," is a bit ambiguous. It suggests that the noise is electrical in origin, which is quite likely. If so it may be that the shielding/isolation of the circuits in the new machine is inadequate to keep the audio card from picking up electrical interference, or faulty. That is one good reason not to put the audio system inside the box. See if you can borrow a USB interface and test it. PCI bridging would more likely cause dropouts or failure to function at all than "noise."
Thanks David. That's what I first thought. It's not line noise though. I've been in the same physical location for twenty years and I've never had issues like this. And the new components all pretty much plugged into the same places the previous ones did. Heck, even the old computer is plugged into the same circuit. The new system is all good, (as in, not cheap), components. One would think that shielding would not be a problem but you never know. The PCI slot is at the bottom of the MB, (which puts it closer to the PSU). Could that be an issue? One interesting thing is, that when I open Sonar, the noises gets quite a bit louder. It also responds to mouse movement, opening a DB and almost anything else I do. Every click or movement changes the pitch and various elements of the noise. Very strange. At least at this point, I can still record into the old computer and then transfer the files. Clubby, but it will work for now. Paul
|
Paul G
Max Output Level: -52 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2334
- Joined: 2004/03/17 21:38:03
- Location: Florida
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/01/17 15:47:40
(permalink)
fireberd
The "bridge" from a PCI slot to the PCIe bus is a logic item. Could be a chip somewhere on the motherboard or the function could be built into the chip/controller for the PCIe bus. Ah hah! Well that explains it. Thanks Jack. fireberdDo you get any "noise" from the regular PC audio? (Realtek).
I have all that shut off. I'll have to give it a try Paul
|
Sir Les
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1182
- Joined: 2012/07/09 04:56:19
- Location: MONTREAL, QUEBEC, CANADA,
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/01/18 19:47:02
(permalink)
You say...some noise when moving the mouse...That might be tied to HDMI audio codex on video card driver....As I have found to happen here....and might not be completely turned off...in OS or Applet for video card..or device manager...Might pass through...?
And or IRQ sharing..if so...yes, all that, may be tied to noise.
PCI chip bus bridge to PCIe?...Not sure about that....could be...Yet this is a long and hard to sort issue, I'm still testing myself....
As I may not have much to offer in regards to how to setup your choice Motherboard...Manual is best to seek out what shares with what...and try to put the card in the least shared slot..if one exist that does not share...(you probably did your homework on).and not one that shares the video card irq....as forced by chipset.
But perhaps a multimedia shared port or slot...
if this is the reason for having it that way...no other slot available...there are ways to hack into the irq sharing feature that has been hidden from users in win 7 and up.
But you would have to google that...and follow if wanting to continue to use what you got...not going on...to make it go..on with...lol.
And if some here think buying new audio gear is going to solve for X....No freaking way!
Cheers.
Sir Les
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
|
Sir Les
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1182
- Joined: 2012/07/09 04:56:19
- Location: MONTREAL, QUEBEC, CANADA,
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/01/18 20:00:36
(permalink)
Oh try moving or getting a different video card...does not have to be a gtx nvidia...and put that on a different slot...to move a irq sharing audio card....if you have more pcie than pci....should work.
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
|
Paul G
Max Output Level: -52 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2334
- Joined: 2004/03/17 21:38:03
- Location: Florida
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/01/18 22:30:03
(permalink)
Sir Les
You say...some noise when moving the mouse...That might be tied to HDMI audio codex on video card driver....As I have found to happen here....and might not be completely turned off...in OS or Applet for video card..or device manager...Might pass through...? Thanks for the response Les. I'll have to go back and revisit all of that. I know that the on board audio is off. And or IRQ sharing..if so...yes, all that, may be tied to noise.
PCI chip bus bridge to PCIe?...Not sure about that....could be...Yet this is a long and hard to sort issue, I'm still testing myself.... As mentioned above, I checked the IRQ sharing. The audio interface is on IRQ 19 and is accompanied only by two instances of "Intel 82801 PCI Bridge - 244E. The PCI Bridge is what Steve suggested is the problem. The graphics card is on a different IRQ. As I may not have much to offer in regards to how to setup your choice Motherboard...Manual is best to seek out what shares with what...and try to put the card in the least shared slot..if one exist that does not share...(you probably did your homework on).and not one that shares the video card irq....as forced by chipset.
But perhaps a multimedia shared port or slot...
if this is the reason for having it that way...no other slot available...there are ways to hack into the irq sharing feature that has been hidden from users in win 7 and up.
But you would have to google that...and follow if wanting to continue to use what you got...not going on...to make it go..on with...lol. Yep. Only one PCI slot. It was very hard to find a MB with the right layout. And if some here think buying new audio gear is going to solve for X....No freaking way!
Cheers.
Sir Les I may be forced to do it though... Thanks for your input. Paul
|
mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12010
- Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
- Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/04 02:44:31
(permalink)
Unfortutunately if you want to use a. PCI based sound card then this motherboard willl not do it.
Most USB based sound devices have latency that will likely surpass your Delta card. Certainly the other components used will be better.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
|
sock monkey
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 547
- Joined: 2011/11/06 12:12:08
- Location: Tree Top Studios
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/05 22:46:14
(permalink)
I was told long ago that PCI audio cards are very susceptible to internal noise. Might be why we have moved on. Check out Motu
Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio Singer Songwriter, Solo Performer, Acoustic Duo and semi pro Sound Monkey.
|
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 9871
- Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
- Location: Ohio
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/06 13:22:55
(permalink)
scook
The problem is likely the PCI slot itself. Most modern motherboards implement PCI slots using a bridge chip rendering the slots useless for old PCI audio interfaces.
This is the answer. The older machine most likely has true (non-bridged) PCI slots.
|
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 9871
- Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
- Location: Ohio
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/06 13:27:12
(permalink)
sock monkey
I was told long ago that PCI audio cards are very susceptible to internal noise. Might be why we have moved on. Check out Motu
Though I'm not a fan of A/D D/A converters being inside the PC, some designs (Lynx) are much better than others. Lower cost interfaces with onboard A/D D/A typically see a noise-floor of ~-100dB. That's not horrible... but it's not stellar. The noise the OP is talking about wouldn't be the noise-floor. The most probable cause is the Z97 motherboard using a bridged PCI slot.
|
Paul G
Max Output Level: -52 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2334
- Joined: 2004/03/17 21:38:03
- Location: Florida
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/06 14:45:18
(permalink)
mudgel
Unfortutunately if you want to use a. PCI based sound card then this motherboard willl not do it.
Most USB based sound devices have latency that will likely surpass your Delta card. Certainly the other components used will be better.
Thanks Michael. I ended up getting a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. I still have some bugs to work out but at least it's quiet.
|
Paul G
Max Output Level: -52 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2334
- Joined: 2004/03/17 21:38:03
- Location: Florida
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/06 14:46:54
(permalink)
sock monkey
I was told long ago that PCI audio cards are very susceptible to internal noise. Might be why we have moved on. Check out Motu
Thanks Spencer. It's got to be the new MB's PCI slot as the Delta is dead quiet in my old system.
|
Paul G
Max Output Level: -52 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2334
- Joined: 2004/03/17 21:38:03
- Location: Florida
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/06 14:50:21
(permalink)
Jim Roseberry
scook
The problem is likely the PCI slot itself. Most modern motherboards implement PCI slots using a bridge chip rendering the slots useless for old PCI audio interfaces.
This is the answer.
The older machine most likely has true (non-bridged) PCI slots.
Thanks Jim. Yes, my previous MB was a 6 year old Gigabyte that was "yesterday's" technology when I built that machine.
|
abacab
Max Output Level: -30.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4464
- Joined: 2014/12/31 19:34:07
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/06 15:29:13
(permalink)
fireberd
I got a new floppy drive but it won't connect to any USB port on my new motherboard because all the ports are either USB 3.0 or USB 3.1. I found it will connect to a USB 2.0 port and currently waiting for a PCIe USB 2.0 expansion card to be shipped.
No need to add a PCIe card. Your motherboard has USB2.0 connector pins onboard already. Just add a cheap rear chassis bracket that supplies the cable connectors.
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
|
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 9871
- Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
- Location: Ohio
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/08 12:30:50
(permalink)
abacab
No need to add a PCIe card. Your motherboard has USB2.0 connector pins onboard already. Just add a cheap rear chassis bracket that supplies the cable connectors.
+1 These USB-2 brackets are ~$6 (connect to a USB-2 header on the motherboard)... and it'll be using an Intel USB controller.
|
fireberd
Max Output Level: -38 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3704
- Joined: 2008/02/25 14:14:28
- Location: Inverness, FL
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/08 12:36:51
(permalink)
Jim, The USB 2.0 connector (there is only 1) on the motherboard is being used by the Corsair H100i CPU cooler. Had to add a PCIe card (and after adding the USB 2.0 port card the floppy diskette drive works perfect).
"GCSG Productions" Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors, Ozone 5, Studio One 4.1 ISRC Registered Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
|
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 9871
- Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
- Location: Ohio
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/08 13:54:12
(permalink)
fireberd
Jim, The USB 2.0 connector (there is only 1) on the motherboard is being used by the Corsair H100i CPU cooler. Had to add a PCIe card (and after adding the USB 2.0 port card the floppy diskette drive works perfect).
Didn't realize the USB-2 header was being used. Lots of motherboards have two USB-2 headers. In any event, it works... so the rest is moot. 
|
fireberd
Max Output Level: -38 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3704
- Joined: 2008/02/25 14:14:28
- Location: Inverness, FL
- Status: offline
Re: New Build - Bad Interface noise
2017/02/08 14:24:06
(permalink)
This ASUS motherboard has one USB 2.0 and two USB 3.0 headers.
"GCSG Productions" Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors, Ozone 5, Studio One 4.1 ISRC Registered Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
|