If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator ..

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guitz
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2017/01/26 04:59:16 (permalink)

If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator ..

that could simulate what the performance of brand A,B,C,D,E , etc etc would be in YOUR pc. Meaning you could download the simulation software , run it, and all the sudden know exactly how crash prone its gonna be with SONAR under a load, even more crucially , the latency you're going to get. That alone is such a critical thing to know but you can't until you buy it! ....I know a driver communicates with hardware, but that's where they could do their engineering magic to simulate the hardware. Of course they'd have to have code from all the major makers, not gonna happen probly, but still, how cool would it be to know beforehand which interface is going to work on your system the best beforehand without trial and  error.
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    Soundwise
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/26 05:48:50 (permalink)
    I think you are on to something. Analogue gear wasn't perfect, but when it was gone, software companies started to emulate all the flaws and inconsistencies to the minutest detail. I foresee a new era, where musicians won't need to learn music or hone their skills in a traditional manner, but will just draw patterns and loops and get a song produced and mastered automatically. Oh, wait! Isn't this already happening? You are right, it's time to ask for audio interface emulation.

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    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/26 07:20:09 (permalink)
    FWIW, There's a lot of information currently available (online) about various audio interfaces.
    If you want a "sure thing", go with an audio interface that's a proven top-performer.
     
    It's pretty well known that RME (the entire range) are excellent performers across the board.
    Lynx is right there with RME.
    MOTU is a close second.
     
     

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    Jim Roseberry
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    #3
    Cactus Music
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/26 10:17:51 (permalink)
    Or buy a Mac  :) 

    Johnny V  
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    rsinger
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/26 13:07:55 (permalink)
    The problem is not just the driver, there are a lot of factors that can influence stability and latency.
     
    On VGuitarForums there is a thread about audio interfaces. It would make sense to do something similar in the top part of this forum so it would be sticky. People could post what interface they are using, if it is stable, what buffer sizes they are using for tracking/mixing and what OS they are using.
     
    Just because some one posts that they have an I/F that is stable and low latency doesn't mean that another person with a different system that is unstable won't have problems, but at least you know the drivers are good.

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    #5
    azslow3
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/26 17:25:17 (permalink)
    Interface simulator is extremely hard to write. Even digital part of computer is not easy to simulate (check qemu for example, to have an idea how that goes... you can imagine my frustration when after simulating one ARM based device, checking that the simulator works perfectly with original linux kernel/distribution and writing my own Linux disk driver for newer kernel, I have found that real hardware is refusing to cooperate with my driver ).
     
    But there are 2 tests which if implemented will almost solve the problem:
    1) the tester which investigate which jitter is acceptable for an interface, with particular driver in particular mode. A kind of audio loop based (already existing) latency utility which fill WDM/ASIO/etc. buffers with jitter and put load on the system at the same time (disk + RAM + video). So people which already have the hardware can run it and publish results
    2) a virtual audio interface, which measure the jitter coming from the client (DAW)
     
    So, taking the result from latency real live tests (exist in the Internet for almost all interfaces), the result from (1) published the same way and the result from (2) measured on your system with your projects, it should be easy to predict what you are going to achieve with different devices.
     
    Hypothetic example: let say an interface is know to produce 5ms loop time with 16bit/64 buffer size, but it tolerate less then 1ms jitter with such settings. 10ms with 16bit/128 and tolerance 2ms, and so on. You measure that Sonar with your project produce up to 1.5ms jitter. Then you know you will be unable to run at 5ms with this interface, but will be able to run with 10ms.
     
    Cactus Music
    Or buy a Mac  :)

    Or PC made to run DAW and tested with particular interface (there are many reports in this forum that works).
    Finally a PC for $1000 + RME for $1000 will work not worse then Mac for $1800 + "am interface" for $200
     

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    #6
    Cactus Music
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/26 21:30:52 (permalink)
    I was just kidding, Actually because I do build my own and pay attention to what is said both here and on Computer forums,  I have never had issues like many have. My last issues were 10 years ago when I tried to use a Creative Labs Audigy II card - out of sync,  and next an M Audio Fast Track - kept disconnecting.  
    I use 4 different computers - Laptops running Sonar and Home Studio right now and all are 100% stable. 
    I have 2 Audio interfaces and one system using on board via WASAPI. 
    As far as interfaces go, you get what you pay for. 
    Rule #1 only buy brands that seem to have the best drivers. 
    I see no point in screwing around trying different systems. It seems straight forward to me, Buy a Motu, RME,  or Lynx. ( sorry if I miss another top brand)  Anything else is going to lower the standards which is fine for many as long as your aware of it. Dont buy a $150 interface and a Laptop of unknown construction and complain. 
    post edited by Cactus Music - 2017/01/26 22:18:37

    Johnny V  
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    #7
    guitz
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/27 01:11:42 (permalink)
    rsinger
     
     
    Just because some one posts that they have an I/F that is stable and low latency doesn't mean that another person with a different system that is unstable won't have problems, but at least you know the drivers are good.


     
    Exactly. Tried and true interfaces on someones elses system is meaningless if you have issues on yours.Plus, how cool would it be to see test results for all the parameters that are important in a side by side comparison of all the major makers, in YOUR system. Very cool, I'd say.
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    guitz
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/27 02:23:40 (permalink)
    Jim Roseberry
    FWIW, There's a lot of information currently available (online) about various audio interfaces.
    If you want a "sure thing", go with an audio interface that's a proven top-performer.
     
    It's pretty well known that RME (the entire range) are excellent performers across the board.
    Lynx is right there with RME.
    MOTU is a close second.
     
     




    That's nice. But what I have found over the years, is that all the accolades in the world for said piece of gear, are all but meaningless once you install it on YOUR pc, with YOUR type of mobo, memory, peripherals, windows setup, etc,etc et.
     
    ps- Why didn't you include the Apollo Twin  Mk II desktop ? Any particular reason, or were you just going with stuff that's reported to work well with SONAR? I ask, because I'm am considering it.
    #9
    guitz
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/27 02:32:23 (permalink)
    rsinger
     
     
    Just because some one posts that they have an I/F that is stable and low latency doesn't mean that another person with a different system that is unstable won't have problems




    Exactly. At least a test beforehand could literally show you all the parameters that tests of all makers you are considering would reveal on YOUR system.I think it's an awesome idea.
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    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/27 07:40:11 (permalink)
    there are plenty of car simulators out there - would you buy a car based on that or would you rather take it for a test drive?
     
    many retailers allow for a 30 day money back which is usually enough to see if the interface is what you need/want and stable enough ...

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    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/28 16:44:55 (permalink)
    Cactus Music
    Or buy a Mac  :) 



    Recent Mac OSX updates haven't been exactly super smooth...   
    El Capitan had some major teething issues.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
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    Dave76
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/29 14:36:35 (permalink)
    I usually buy gear that I'm unsure of from retailers with great return policies.  I've made great use out of Amazon's return policies and I've heard good things about Sweetwater's but haven't needed it for anything I've ordered from them.   Worst case scenario assuming you treat the gear right is you end up paying for shipping costs.  Much better than being stuck with a $500 brick.  
     
    My favorite is Amazon's Christmas return window.  You buy something starting November 1 and you can return it up to any point before January 31.  I find that life often gets in the way of the usual 30 day return policies so this works out great.
     
    I've also negotiated custom return policies with manufacturers in the past.  I wanted to try out a pricey delay pedal from a high-end guitar effect manufacturer but at the time you could pretty much only order direct from them and they had no return policy other than for defects.  I emailed them asking if they could make an exception and they agreed to a two-week, no-questions-asked trial period (which was unnecessary because the pedal turned out awesome).  
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    guitz
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/30 04:09:03 (permalink)
    Buy to try is OK..but...wouldn't it at the very least be SO cool to have test results of all the important parameters for an interface, particularly latency beforehand for comparisons sake if nothing else? Like, I'm considering the new UA Twin, the new 6/8 Presonus box, those latest Behringer interfaces (real darkhorse!) ..maybe a Focusrite box of some kind...how cool would it be to run tests on all of them to know which has the lowest latency (among other parameters)  in MY computer? Too awesome.
    post edited by guitz - 2017/01/31 07:36:52
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    guitz
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    . 2017/01/30 04:09:03 (permalink)
    .
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    jackson white
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    Re: If only audio engineers could make an audio interface simulator .. 2017/01/30 17:49:52 (permalink)
    rsinger
    ... a thread about audio interfaces. It would make sense to do something similar in the top part of this forum so it would be sticky. People could post what interface they are using, if it is stable, what buffer sizes they are using for tracking/mixing and what OS they are using.
     
    Just because some one posts that they have an I/F that is stable and low latency doesn't mean that another person with a different system that is unstable won't have problems, but at least you know the drivers are good.



    +1 and great suggestion. Given the endless configuration variations this should be useful for many users. 
     

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