Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what?

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sdpate67
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2017/02/01 19:41:32 (permalink)

Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what?

I know - we don't need to sample at 192 kHz and I don't but I did test my new AES16e card in several scenarios to see if I could achieve low latency. The answer is yes although not a low as Lynx states.
 
What did surprise me is the hit Sonar takes at 192 kHz - about 50% of the 4 core processor at 2.8 GHz. That almost looks like a bug or something since the 172.4 kHz is under 5%.
 
Anyone have any ideas on why it jumps to such a high utilization? Thanks.
 

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    Vastman
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/01 20:09:47 (permalink)
    Don't know about whether that's appropriate (depends on complexity of track/effects/vsts) but you WILL take a huge cpu hit running at higher rates... This has nothing to do with Sonar.
     
    I ran at 96 for awhile as my Forte driver latency kinda sucks  but went back to 44 as cpu hit, even with my 6 cores, was too heavy.  
     
    It's why my NEXT interface will be an RME... extremely low latency at 44 without having to jump to higher sample rates.
     
    You might wanna post this in the Studio Hardware section where folks talk about this stuff and the experts who build daws/track this stuff hang out.
     

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    #2
    mudgel
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/02 02:42:59 (permalink)
    Don't forget that you're moving a heap more audio data with a higher sampling rate. This will tax your hard drive if it's not up to the job.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    chuckebaby
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/02 06:23:46 (permalink)
    im hoping your PC is of the newer kind. 192K is like driving 150 MPH in a Go Kart.
    It going to be fun but something is going to give sooner or later
     

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    #4
    Muziekschuur at home
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/02 07:48:18 (permalink)
    Was this without any plugins?

    Cakewalk Sonar Platinum Windows 7 32bit & 64bit (dualboot) Gigabyte mobo Intel dual quad 9650 & 4GB Ram RME DIGI9636 & Tascam DM24.  M-audio Rbus & SI-24 Alesis Pro active 5.1 & Radford 90 transmissionline monitors. Roland RD-150 piano Edirol UM-880 & alesis fireport.
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    THambrecht
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/02 11:07:58 (permalink)
    We often digitaze vinyl for customers with 192/24 and we do this with an 150$ cheap AMD computer Dual-Core 2.8 GHz. Recording one track the CPU goes to 28%. RME Fireface 800. Audio recording into a network device (NAS-Server).

    We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
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    #6
    pwalpwal
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/02 11:13:09 (permalink)
    while we all agree that higher resolution means more cpu, the pertinent question is why such a big leap, from 5% @ 172 to 50% @ 192 - the cpu increase is not proportionate to the resolution increase

    just a sec

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    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/02 15:19:07 (permalink)
    You should definitely test it without any plugins first. There shouldn't be a big jump from SONAR's point of view. However plugins might internally downsample to their native sample rate which could cause a hit.

    Noel Borthwick
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    sdpate67
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/02 18:04:47 (permalink)
    mudgel
    Don't forget that you're moving a heap more audio data with a higher sampling rate. This will tax your hard drive if it's not up to the job.

    The weird thing is that 174.2 kHz uses like no CPU (5-7%) and the moment I upped it to 192 kHz it was 45-60%. That can't be justified by data since there would only be 10% more data being processed.
     
    This was only 2 tracks of keyboard demo with no processing.

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    sdpate67
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/03 21:00:53 (permalink)
    The test audio is two tracks 2:36 long, no plugins or native effects or ProChannel.
    The test was recorded using a Lynx AES16e audio card @192 kHz.
    There is something going on with Sonar because it has audio engine failures.

     

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    sdpate67
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/03 21:06:07 (permalink)
    Here's the same track with the slightly lower sample rate of 176.4 (not 172 as I said in error above)
    The CPU load is below 5%
     


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    jimkleban
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/03 21:25:52 (permalink)
    I know your question is why the quantum leap in increasing CPU... but just logically speaking, at some point, your OS and your DAW will start FIGHTING for resources, which then adds overhead to the CPU to manage this war, which might be causing the QUANTUM leap.
     
    I am using an APOLLO  (original old silver face) and can run in 192kz/24 bit, albeit I have to turn up the latency buffers on the Apollo/SPLAT to do this.  Which isn't an issue, since I can monitor the input tracks in real time and then it doesn't matter for mixing (except I notice a lag when I push the sliders and buttons).
     
    I am totally guessing on what is causing the Quantum Leap.... 
     
     
    PS - I also had a similar problem a few years ago, and using the same theory, fixed my DAW by turning down the number of threads that SPLAT would use (to be one less that my CPU had) so that the OS wasn't contending for CPU cycles but I think that the bakers have put in some fix for this since then.

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    mudgel
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/04 00:32:05 (permalink)
    Do you see the same difference inSonars CPU meters as you do in the Windows task manager?

    Is the reading in the Task Manager the same for the whole song.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    sdpate67
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/04 08:40:33 (permalink)
    jimkleban
    I know your question is why the quantum leap in increasing CPU... but just logically speaking, at some point, your OS and your DAW will start FIGHTING for resources, which then adds overhead to the CPU to manage this war, which might be causing the QUANTUM leap.
     
    I am using an APOLLO  (original old silver face) and can run in 192kz/24 bit, albeit I have to turn up the latency buffers on the Apollo/SPLAT to do this.  Which isn't an issue, since I can monitor the input tracks in real time and then it doesn't matter for mixing (except I notice a lag when I push the sliders and buttons).
     
    I am totally guessing on what is causing the Quantum Leap.... 
     
     
    PS - I also had a similar problem a few years ago, and using the same theory, fixed my DAW by turning down the number of threads that SPLAT would use (to be one less that my CPU had) so that the OS wasn't contending for CPU cycles but I think that the bakers have put in some fix for this since then.


    I apologize - what is SPLAT?

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    sdpate67
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/04 08:41:53 (permalink)
    mudgel
    Do you see the same difference inSonars CPU meters as you do in the Windows task manager?

    Is the reading in the Task Manager the same for the whole song.

    The Sonar CPU meters were the first clue - right after the audio engine crapped out. I turned on resource manager which confirmed the sonar executable was using up 4 cores at 40-50%.

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    sdpate67
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/04 09:07:16 (permalink)
    I ran the same hi sample rate files through Ableton Live 9 and the results were
    176.4  CPU @25%
    192     CPU @52%
     

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    sdpate67
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/04 10:01:48 (permalink)
    My question is purely academic. I have no intention of ever using 24/192 KHz for recording. It doesn't make sense.  There are plenty of summarized and detailed readings on that topic. http://productionadvice.co.uk/high-sample-rates-make-your-music-sound-worse/
     
    There is also the risk of IM distortion introduced when down-sampling. See the SRC tests at http://src.infinitewave.ca/
    where Sonar (since 8.5 onward) comes out looking pretty well top of the list for DAW's.
     

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    jimkleban
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    Re: Sonar and 192 kHz sampling like what? 2017/02/04 10:52:14 (permalink)
    SPLAT is  "Sonar Platinum"

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