amiller
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/07 17:49:08
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LLyons
LJB
Channel Tools "Wide" preset. Easy.
LBJ, might I ask you or someone else who might be so kind, as to post an image of WIDE, or list the settings? For some reason, that preset is no longer in my preset drop down. I used it a lot a few years back, and I believe your spot on - that was my go to start setting for getting a nice wide image.
Take care,
L
I was curious about the "Wide" preset also. It's not in my preset drop down either.
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ampfixer
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/07 22:14:01
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I'm pretty sure that it's called "Increased Width".
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Kev999
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 01:48:06
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ampfixer
I'm pretty sure that it's called "Increased Width".
I've just checked. That's correct. As far as I know, it can only work for a stereo source. It reduces the level of the centre of the stereo field. It certainly doesn't split or delay a mono signal.
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LJB
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 02:14:58
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Guys, it works on both mono and stereo sources. Either that, or Cakewalk baked me a special one. If you are not upgraded to one of the latest SPLAT versions then you might have to manually change your track output to stereo. The preset is not important. I use this thing nearly every day, and sometimes twice an hour.
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amiller
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 08:19:11
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LJB
Guys, it works on both mono and stereo sources. Either that, or Cakewalk baked me a special one. If you are not upgraded to one of the latest SPLAT versions then you might have to manually change your track output to stereo. The preset is not important. I use this thing nearly every day, and sometimes twice an hour.
Is that what you do..."manually change your track output to stereo?" How do you do that? Is it by switching the interleave?
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chuckebaby
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 10:45:31
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if you have each track panned hard left and hard right... why is stereo such a big concern ?
once it is hard panned, its a mono track.
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amiller
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 10:59:51
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chuckebaby
if you have each track panned hard left and hard right... why is stereo such a big concern ?
once it is hard panned, its a mono track.
Well, because LJB stated that you don't need to clone a track "it surely saves you cloning an audio track :O)." So, if we're just using ONE single mono track there's nothing to pan. So, I'm a bit confused on how I delay one track and leave the other track un-delayed if there is only ONE mono track. Please know that I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I'm just thick headed and need clarification to understand. If I can accomplish my goal of placing a mono track precisely where I want it in the sound stage using just ONE mono track that would be great and a real time saver.
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Maarkr
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 11:56:47
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 12:38:13
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On your mono track, switch the track interleave button to stereo. Insert channel tools. Notice how you can now set the delay and pan for each side separately. You can make a ProChannel FX Chain with custom knobs for L/R delay and pan if you like.
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amiller
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 14:43:51
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Sanderxpander
On your mono track, switch the track interleave button to stereo. Insert channel tools. Notice how you can now set the delay and pan for each side separately. You can make a ProChannel FX Chain with custom knobs for L/R delay and pan if you like.
I'm gonna try that right now...thanks!
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amiller
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 15:26:34
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OK...success with Channel Tools on a mono track. Here's what I had to change.
First, yes, set the interleave on the mono track to stereo. That allowed access to the stereo controls ... no longer greyed out. But, adjusting the controls still did not change the mono track's location in the sound stage.
I'm not sure what made me think of this but I decided to move the Channel Tools plugin position within the fx bin. It was dead last. Suddenly, it started working. So now I had to figure out why. At first, I thought the Neutron plugin was interfering with it so I deleted that plugin and moved the Channel Tools last again. It broke again. I then decided to delete the limiter I had put in the bin. Channel Tools started working properly again. Then I realized I was using Waves L1 Mono limiter on this mono track. I didn't think to change it the stereo version once I changed the interleave to stereo. So, I swapped it out for the stereo version and now everything works as expected.
In short, the mono limiter was nullifying Channel Tools.
Thanks for your patience guys...I'm learning every day.
RAWK!!! . SONAR Platinum: 2017.10
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 17:08:51
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Don't worry, it's happened to the best of us. FWIW, Waves includes the mono versions of their plugs as kind of a "legacy" option. I too find myself using them out of some sort of obsessive compulsive habit. As far as I understand it, Sonar will work just fine using the stereo versions on your mono tracks and not use any extra CPU.
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LLyons
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 17:23:05
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I do not have increased width in the drop down menu. Might I ask if one of you kind forum folks could take a screen shot or list the settings.
Thanks!
LL
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amiller
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 17:58:57
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LLyons
I do not have increased width in the drop down menu. Might I ask if one of you kind forum folks could take a screen shot or list the settings.
Thanks!
LL
It's not in my drop down either. I'm thinking it was in an older version...'don't know.
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Klaus
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 18:42:08
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Increased Width Preset: 
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amiller
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 18:55:54
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Klaus
Increased Width Preset:
Wow! That is soooo strange! It does not exist in mine. Is that something you created?
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Klaus
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 19:05:33
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No, that's a screenshot of one of the presets which are included in Channel Tools on my system.
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amiller
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/08 19:09:56
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Klaus
No, that's a screenshot of one of the presets which are included in Channel Tools on my system.
Interesting, I found this Cakewalk thread regarding missing presets in Channel tools after an upgrade. Apparently, this guy never got a solution to recover the missing presets. http://forum.cakewalk.com/Channel-Tools-Missing-Presets-m2914829.aspx
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LJB
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/09 01:12:59
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So, after 2 pages of Q'ing and A'ing someone FINALLY tries the solution Craig suggested in the beginning. LOL! :O) Glad you got is sorted now.
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
--------------------
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amiller
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/09 09:41:23
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LJB
So, after 2 pages of Q'ing and A'ing someone FINALLY tries the solution Craig suggested in the beginning. LOL! :O) Glad you got is sorted now.
No, that's not fair to say at all. I did use Channel Tools right from the beginning but it didn't work for me because I didn't have my track set up correctly. Anyway, thanks for everyone's input...it's been a learning experience.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/09 10:24:04
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I once lost all of my Channel Tools presets. They eventually came back but I'm not sure when/how.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/09 10:24:21
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amiller
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/09 11:01:43
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Bristol_Jonesey
I once lost all of my Channel Tools presets. They eventually came back but I'm not sure when/how.
I was just curious about why some were not showing up.
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eltonechris
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/09 11:21:46
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To get the best professional widening effect its probably best to not just use the Haas effect (delay one side as discussed here) but also to alter the tuning, formant and random timing as well on the delayed side. Here is an example of how I do it, but it needs Sonar version with Melodyne. It also sounds less cancelled and comb filtered when collapsed to mono.
1. Clone the track
2. Pan one track full left and other full right.....you can alter this to taste later
3. On the R track add sonar channel tools
4. Set channel tools to stereo input mode and set delay R to around 30mS. Set both sliders far right
5. Enable melodyne on R track clip by selecting clip and picking Region FX - Melodyne
6. In melodyne select all.
7. In melodyne Edit, Add Random Deviations- Pitch Drastic
8. In melodyne Edit Random Deviations - Timing Drastic
9. In melodyne use formant tool to lower formant a little
10. Bounce the clip to render the changes.
11. Pan and volume balance as required. Also as you have effectively spliot the track you can add different effects to left and right if required.
a little long winded I know but you soon get used to it. What has been done here is L is untouched, R is delayed , then random tuning, random timing added and formant slightly changed. This give a wide effect with a double tracking sound.
Let me know if it worked for you :)
Hope helps.
Chris.
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jimkleban
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/10 15:04:07
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Does anyone have an audio MIX link that demonstrates the impact of the HAAS effect in a mix? Like a before and after. I think this would be helpful to folks to hear exactly what effect this impacts to audio.
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sharke
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/10 15:45:29
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I'm not a huge fan of the Haas effect. I know it's a quick and easy way to stereoize a mono instrument but I'm rarely pleased with the results. In the first place I can never find a "sweet spot" delay time which sounds acceptable to my ears in mono (and I try them all within the generally accepted range) and even when listened to in stereo, it sounds weird to me almost in an eye-watering kind of way, because the two sides don't sound balanced (i.e. the side which sounds first sounds the loudest). I've got a few favorite techniques for stereoizing that sound much better to me and are far more mono compatible:
1) Subtle use of a stereo chorus or flanger, with settings like delay and feedback low enough so that they don't color the sound too much, and modulation rate set to slow so that it's not too distracting
2) A micro pitch shifter - the SoundToys one is excellent, as is the one on the Eventide UltraChannel plugin
3) Also pitch related, the xln RC-20 retro color plugin has a tape wobble feature which creates gorgeous stereo when you flip the stereo switch and set the wobbling to a barely noticable minimum. It also has a width control, although I prefer to do stereo narrowing and panning with Flux's free StereoTool plugin.
4) The Waves PS22 stereo maker - it distributes frequencies evenly between left and right in a wave pattern which collapses perfectly to mono. I like this one on things like acoustic guitar.
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amiller
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Re: Haas effect - Sonar track delay?
2017/02/10 16:01:49
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sharke
I'm not a huge fan of the Haas effect. I know it's a quick and easy way to stereoize a mono instrument but I'm rarely pleased with the results. In the first place I can never find a "sweet spot" delay time which sounds acceptable to my ears in mono (and I try them all within the generally accepted range) and even when listened to in stereo, it sounds weird to me almost in an eye-watering kind of way, because the two sides don't sound balanced (i.e. the side which sounds first sounds the loudest). I've got a few favorite techniques for stereoizing that sound much better to me and are far more mono compatible:
1) Subtle use of a stereo chorus or flanger, with settings like delay and feedback low enough so that they don't color the sound too much, and modulation rate set to slow so that it's not too distracting
2) A micro pitch shifter - the SoundToys one is excellent, as is the one on the Eventide UltraChannel plugin
3) Also pitch related, the xln RC-20 retro color plugin has a tape wobble feature which creates gorgeous stereo when you flip the stereo switch and set the wobbling to a barely noticable minimum. It also has a width control, although I prefer to do stereo narrowing and panning with Flux's free StereoTool plugin.
4) The Waves PS22 stereo maker - it distributes frequencies evenly between left and right in a wave pattern which collapses perfectly to mono. I like this one on things like acoustic guitar.
Actually, I started this thread because I wanted to try out the Haas effect to place an instrument in a specific place in the sound stage. I did not want to use it to simply widen the stereo field, or to use your phrase, "stereoize a mono instrument." In other words, I wanted to try using the Haas effect instead of using the standard pan knobs which effect the volume of the tracks not the timing. The Haas effect, with delays values LESS than 1 millisecond, can be used for panning your track to wherever you want it in the sound stage. It works surprising well. Above 1 millisecond and localization of the track begins to sound strange.
RAWK!!! . SONAR Platinum: 2017.10
System specs: Purrrfect Audio: http://www.studiocat.com/open_cart/ • Case Silent Mid Tower • Power-Supply 600w quiet • Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz • RAM 32GB DDR3/1600 • OS drive 1TB HD • Audio drive 2TB HD • Samples drive 1 3TB HD • Burner 24x DVD/RW • Video HD4600 • Add TI chipset Firewire For all others • Operating System Windows 10 x64 Home Edition . MOTU 828 mkII . Lucid 9624 A/D . Millennia HV-3b pre . Dual 24" Widescreen Monitors
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