Helpful ReplyAddictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks?

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MakerDP
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2017/02/23 17:21:29 (permalink)

Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks?

Curious how you guys use AD2. Do you split all kit pieces into their own tracks in SONAR or do you just send a stereo track and do all your drum processing inside of AD2 and WHY do you prefer to do it that way?

I am having a real hard time getting all my gain staging levels right for some reason when I split everything into their own SONAR tracks. Maybe I am missing something? Maybe I shouldn't be splitting them all out like that and just process the pieces fully within AD2 and send just the stereo mix?
#1
highlandermak
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/23 18:56:59 (permalink)
Although splitting the drums up in Sonar might give you more granular control I have found that by using the control in AD2 is better for cohesion. For some reason I had a much harder time getting my drum mix right when I separated them in Sonar as well. Now I exclusively use 1 track and mix directly in AD2. 

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RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/23 21:31:33 (permalink)
I've been splitting them in Sonar... I've also really been struggling to mix drums. I would love to hear other opinions on this too.
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TheSteven
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/23 21:32:59 (permalink)
Last time I used AD2 I started with 1 stereo track and had all the MIDI for the parts in Sonar.
Once I had the drums finalized I cloned my AD2 single instrument track several times then split the MIDI between 4 AD2 instances - Kick, Snare, cymbals & HH, and everything else.
A little minor seasoning of Eq & compression (in Sonar) - viola!
For this project it worked out very well.

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gswitz
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/23 21:37:19 (permalink)
Fec know. :-)

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lawajava
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/23 22:09:04 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby emeraldsoul 2017/02/23 23:05:50
I'm using Addictive Drums quite a bit now.  After considerable experimentation, I really do like the preset sounds more than my efforts to break things apart.  As stated above, there's some great cohesion in the master outs when everything hangs together.
 
Here are several things I am doing that may or may not be of interest. 
 
1. I'm recording onto one combined Midi track all of the kit pieces (or the performance). I'm finding that AD2 captures e-drum inputs from the hi hat and all of the kit pieces really flawlessly. The overall sound really conveys a well-recorded full live kit.  And the presets sound great, along with being intuitive, allowing for slick easy-to-grab tones and moods for the drums.
 
2. When I have what I want, then I can open a new instance of AD2 and paste just the ride in.  I can't get the ride to sound the way I want by adjusting it in one instance. But I can by copying it in to a second instance (when it's by itself) and adjusting the tones / volume etc. to something that suits my ear for appropriate ride level and sound.  (I didn't quite explain what I truly do, which is when I'm recording I record the performance to two AD2 instances, and the second track of Midi I have muted out all sounds but the ride.  That way when recording I can actually hear the frickin' ride).  Either explanation above gives the picture.
 
3. I actually use the same technique to pull the toms, snare, kick into either another instance of AD2 or into Session Drummer 2 or some other kit when I want to flavor up the main tones.  When I do that I am able to isolate those tracks to specific Sonar tracks and can use compression, reverb etc.  So, when doing this from AD2 I'm sending only the specific kit pieces to Sonar tracks, not the Master bus.  Or, if I'm using another drum synth, I can also choose to lower the AD2 tones for those main kit pieces on the main track (if it sounds better) to allow the other tracks to take the forefront.
 
In sum, I don't enjoy using the effect adjustments within AD2. I far prefer to make tonal adjustments with the array of tools available from Sonar or third party effects.  I do really admire the presets (that take advantage of the effects built in to AD2).  For my taste so far, I like to grab a preset and push out the sound to the mix through the Master outs and leave well alone within AD2.  When I want to doctor up the sound, I copy the Midi kit pieces out of the main AD2 track to other tracks and route those to dedicated Sonar tracks where I can doctor them up in Sonar in the FX bin.
 
Also in sum, I find that capturing a live performance in AD2 is really fun and convenient.  That said, if I were not using live performance drums, I would recommend another drum synth like EZ Drummer for putting together a set of loops rather than the loops within AD2 (which aren't bad, but aren't as convenient or obvious as EZ Drummer).
 
I have several of the other options, like BFD3, but recently have taken an extra special liking to the presets and kit sounds of AD2.

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StuH
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 00:39:24 (permalink)
I really like the mix provided by AD2 and only on two occasions have I routed to seperate tracks just for experimenting, but it would be useful if you wanted to duck a bass line under a kick drum. Other ways I guess to work around this, maybe mute the kick and have a separate track with a substitute kick or maybe another instance of AD2 with everything (muted) except for the kick 

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lawajava
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 01:12:29 (permalink)
StuH
I really like the mix provided by AD2 and only on two occasions have I routed to seperate tracks just for experimenting, but it would be useful if you wanted to duck a bass line under a kick drum. Other ways I guess to work around this, maybe mute the kick and have a separate track with a substitute kick or maybe another instance of AD2 with everything (muted) except for the kick 


That's kind of like what I was describing in my longer note above.  By muting out something, or lowering it, and then having a separate track I'm finding I can do those kinds of things (and still maintain the other goodness of AD2).

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TheSteven
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 02:51:06 (permalink)
>"I really like the mix provided by AD2"
Definitely.  
For the most part I don't care for the way the individual tracks/mics sound, but I feel the same about a number of other drum libraries. 
 
 

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jerrydf
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 08:33:42 (permalink)
I usually (i.e. always) use two tracks: one for drums and the other for hihat and other cymbals, and often take different kits for each of these tracks. In fact quite often I'll end up with a real mongrol of a set, and hardly ever the same selection of drums or cymbals on two different tunes (I don't do songs);  it just depends what I think goes best with the track.  So I'll have a bass drum from (for example) indie, a snare from studio pop, crash from united studio ... etc. Increasingly I'm going towards just using the neat sounds, little processing other than a touch of eq on any one piece, and vary rarely any of their reverb. I may adjust the delay/release for damping the toms if I don't want the ring. 
 
I wouldn't mind using a track for each piece, but it just makes it unwieldy to use, in my untutored opinion. 
 
I'm still intrigued about AD's reverse stereo.  Their stereo is from the drummer's perspective (assuming he's right-handed) and I nearly always have to reverse everything (ctrl-drag the mouse on the pan control).
 
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dwardzala
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 08:45:19 (permalink)
I split into separate tracks mainly because it keeps my workflow consistent between projects I record in the box myself and projects I mixed from outside sources.  Also, I can choose to apply the exact effect I want on the tracks instead of relying on XLNs effects.

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#11
Sidroe
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 09:11:11 (permalink)
I found it more cohesive and simpler to use 1 audio and split the midi in to separate tracks as well. I started doing this out of necessity, in the old days because those old computers didn't have enough horsepower to allow me to process every drum track without choking. It made more sense to me that its easier to deal with 1 plugin than 24 different drum tracks. I create a Drums folder for the split midi files and put them in there. This makes it very easy to edit velocities on just the kick, or just the snare, etc.
I also use the Cal for Split Notes To Tracks on single midi drum tracks. I split the drum track then identify and name what is on the individual tracks then they go in to the drum folder. It is a little more work but really saves time for micromanaging velocities on individual drums.
Of course, the computers we run now allows us to do whatever we like but old habits die hard!  Lol!
 

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dcumpian
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 09:15:14 (permalink)
I split into separate tracks and bounce them dry, except for any "room" or "bleed" that makes the drums fit together. I then process the tracks individually in Sonar, and do further processing on a drum buss. In other words, I treat them as if I recorded them in a room. I find it much too difficult to predict how the FX is AD2 (or any synth) will fit when it comes time to actually mix the tracks.
 
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stevec
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 13:41:03 (permalink)
I fall firmly in the "mix it up" category.   My typical process is to start with a single instance, listen a hundred or so times, and decide whether it suits the song as-is.  I will often split out the kick and snare to separate audio tracks, and sometimes I'll also do the same with the toms.  And yet other times everything remains covered by that single instance.   I let my ears guide me down that path...
 
And like Jerry mentioned above, I usually replace individual kit pieces so rarely use a kit in its original form.  For example, on my current project I've replaced all of the cymbals and hihats and have tuned & tweaked the snare, but haven't touched the kick or toms (started with the Retroplex kit). 
 

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sharke
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 15:35:42 (permalink)
With drum VST's in general, if it's "natural" drums like AD2 that have things like overheads and room mics as well as all of the other finely grained and complex mic options and such, I really feel like I get better results from leaving it all in the VST and outputting to a stereo track. Even if you're not entirely happy with the sound, then unless you're very experienced in mixing a drum kit from scratch then it's much easier to just tweak inside the VST using the preset as a starting off point. I've tried bringing everything out to separate tracks and it's almost never as good as the preset. 
 
However if it's electronic drums, like AD2's drum machine presets, or Battery, Geist, Tremor and the like, I much prefer to multi-out those and process them myself. No room mics involved, very simple sample based sound, and often involving kicks with much more bass content than usual. When it's a matter of taming very bass heavy sounds I much prefer to use my own trusty plugins rather than the on-board ones. 

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gbowling
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 16:00:00 (permalink)
I guess first we should know how someone uses AD2 as I can see from the comments there are a lot of different ways. For me, I wind up with individual midi tracks for snare, kick, and toms. But that's just because of the way I work and how I do it. 
 
I record a live acoustic kit, fully mic'd. Once I get the performance down and get the kit sounding like I want. Then I go back and use the kick, snare, and tom close mic'd tracks to trigger midi, copying the midi to individual tracks. 
 
I then use those tracks with AD2 and mix the AD2 sounds with my live acoustic kit. When I'm working to get the midi triggering right, I need the tracks separate so I can easily solo the real snare with the AD2 snare and make sure it's all correctly triggered. I always wind up with midi notes a bit off or some false triggering that I have to clean up. Same with all the tracks, so separating them out makes it easier for me.
 
As for the AD2 sounds, I use AD2 for the processing instead of printing tracks and working with the audio. But then I also have an audio track already from my acoustic recording to do that with. 
 
For the most part, I never use cymbals or hihats from AD2, I use the live overheads for those as they seem to glue everything together better. 
 
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MakerDP
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 16:11:22 (permalink)
Thanks guys. These are all really great replies.

I think in my case I need to either decide to keep it all in AD2 and use a single stereo track or just send everything 100% dry and un-processed split into multiple tracks. Sending processed tracks into individual tracks is what is making it hard for me I think.
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Slugbaby
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 16:41:40 (permalink)
dcumpian
I split into separate tracks and bounce them dry, except for any "room" or "bleed" that makes the drums fit together. I then process the tracks individually in Sonar, and do further processing on a drum buss. In other words, I treat them as if I recorded them in a room. I find it much too difficult to predict how the FX is AD2 (or any synth) will fit when it comes time to actually mix the tracks.
 
Regards,
Dan


I use AD this way.

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Maarkr
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/24 22:05:11 (permalink)
i've used AD for years, before sonar included it, and except for a couple of times I use the output as a stereo mix single track.  I send the mix to my 2 Buss and to an automated buss with a compressor and other magic stuff to spice up the mix in spots like loud parts of a mix.

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Addictive Drums users... do you split into multiple tracks? 2017/02/25 03:42:20 (permalink)
I always use any drum lib as multi-out i.e. one audio track per kit piece. It usually takes some figuring out if you move e.g. from Kontakt to AD or likewise the first time, but once figured out I save a template and use that for loading.

This way you got way more control on the individual pieces (which is important especially for the very hot AD drum presets) plus you can still route the AD internal FX bus to a Sonar track and blend as you like.

The template is set up to include all drums and in case I work with a smaller kit I simply delete the unused tracks prior to mixing.

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