Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power.

Author
ChuckC
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1488
  • Joined: 2010/02/13 01:22:55
  • Location: Port Charlotte, Fl
  • Status: offline
2017/03/03 21:10:30 (permalink)

Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power.

   I have a pretty good PC, built by ADK and forgive my I don't recall all of the specs off hand.  I am running windows 7 64 bit,  i3, I believe it's 3.07ghz?  if memory serves...  and I upgraded the ram to 16 gb, Just a month or so ago I upgraded the graphics card rather than the one on main board of the PC.
 
  My mixes are getting more and more complex as my skills improve and I want to control things better.  Typically a mix for me is something like 13-14 mic's on the kit including cymbals and room mics.
 2 tracks for bass, with a DI.
4-8 guitar tracks (with cleans,dirty,harmony parts, leads etc.)
3-4 vocal tracks.
Maybe synths/keys, maybe a tamborine.... who knows?
So 24-30 tracks,   end up paired down to 12-15 buses with fx busses, parrallel comps, etc.
 
Then I am doing increasingly more automation lately....  Really fine tuning the mix and riding faders mostly, some fx send manipulations written in too.  And I am now running out of power!   Today I had a mix similar to the above going and I noticed the CPU meter in sonar getting up there as I continued working.  At about 55% I started getting a few glitches, audio pops, etc. here and there.  I started saving like every 2 minutes...
at 59% I was just about done, I was listening back and decided to add a long delay to a bus and send the vocal to it at the end of a few lines to get the echo effect vibe in the choruses.   I set up the bus, set up a send from the vocal to it,  opened the plugin to tweak it and after about a minute sonar froze up (screen grey but was still playing back).   Had to force close it.  Reopened and re-added the bus, effect again (I was so close to dune I was hoping to get lucky and finish it up without further issues)   Decided to go with a sonitus delay (rather than 3rd party plug) this time to save power.  Went to write automation and it WON"T LET ME.   I mean, I can go through the motions... but it's not writing anything.   I think I am just SIMPLY out of processing power. ?
So I am contemplating mixing down for instance my bass tracks (One DI, one Sans amp) processed separately, both to a bus, comped and eq'd together.  If I mix that all down to one bass track (with all the eq, FX, and automation baked in) I can turn all that stuff off and save power that way right?    Repeat for guitars... 4 rhythm tracks (2 parts) all dumped to one stereo track etc.
 
Does this make sense to you guys?  Have you run into this before?   IF so, what is the best way to deal with it?  Eventually I will have to upgrade to a better computer again... It has been a few years now (8 years I think).   Any help is really appreciated.

ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
http://www.everythingiam.net/
http://www.stormroomstudios.com
Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
#1

10 Replies Related Threads

    greg_moreira
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 84
    • Joined: 2017/02/08 14:08:24
    • Status: offline
    Re: Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power. 2017/03/03 21:24:25 (permalink)
    have you tried freezing tracks?
     
    Its a life saver for me.  I employ lots of parallel processing and sends etc and my mixes too start to take a toll on the cpu.
     
    although i will say i can push it well past 50% without any issues....  eventually I get there.  
     
    Anyhow at that point I just freeze the track as soon as Im satisfied with a track.  it majorly reduces CPU load.
     
    Right on the track itself there is a little icon that looks sorta like a snowflake.  Pushing that will freeze it.
     
    You cant edit your plugins on that specific track once frozen...but you can unfreeze the track by clicking the same button, edit what you need to, and then refreeze.
     
     
    #2
    Slugbaby
    Max Output Level: -33.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4172
    • Joined: 2004/10/01 13:57:37
    • Location: Toronto, Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re: Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power. 2017/03/03 21:28:38 (permalink)
    I agree with Greg.  Try freezing the synths first, stems will really restrict you when it's time to mix.

    http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
     
    Dell i5, 16Gb RAM, Focusrite 2i2 IO, Telecasters, P-bases, Personal Drama for a muse.
    #3
    dcumpian
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4124
    • Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
    • Status: offline
    Re: Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power. 2017/03/03 21:29:44 (permalink)
    You cannot freeze a bus, so that isn't an option for tracks routed to a bus and then processing the sum. But, yes, freezing FX on individual tracks will certainly help.
     
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #4
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power. 2017/03/03 21:43:43 (permalink)
    dcumpian
    You cannot freeze a bus, so that isn't an option for tracks routed to a bus and then processing the sum.

     
    No, but you can bounce the bus to a track and archive the tracks that feed the bus.
     
    It should also be noted that running out of CPU will not normally cause stability problems in, just crackles and pops and eventually an audio engine dropout. If SONAR is freezing or crashing under heavy load, something else is going on.
     
    Also the OP didn't mention ASIO buffer size. Increasing this to 1024 or more would be the first step to ease CPU load if the project is at the mixing stage and no more tracking is being done that requires low-latency input monitoring.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #5
    ChuckC
    Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1488
    • Joined: 2010/02/13 01:22:55
    • Location: Port Charlotte, Fl
    • Status: offline
    Re: Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power. 2017/03/03 21:53:31 (permalink)
    Thanks for that guys.  I knew synths and stuff though it has been years since I used to record midi drums with a V kit and trigger SD or Addictive drums with it.   Now I often have zero synths going, 1 or 2 on some projects here and there but I do mostly acoustic drums, guitars, basses, vocals, live horns, etc.   I didn't know you could use the freeze button to freeze the fx on audio tracks like that!   Cool deal!  That should help out I am sure and is easier than bouncing to stems.
    I have said it before...  I LOVE THIS FORUM.  This community rocks.

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
    http://www.everythingiam.net/
    http://www.stormroomstudios.com
    Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
    #6
    chuckebaby
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13146
    • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
    • Status: offline
    Re: Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power. 2017/03/03 22:35:42 (permalink)
    It might be nice exploring stem cell research anyway
    But seriously, I mixed stems as merely an experiment a few years back (trying to add depth)
    it WAS different than single track mixing, that's for sure.
    I noticed FX stood out more up front and center in the mixes (Delay, Reverb, Exc).
     
    When you begin to use light compression on a smaller group of instruments it begins to glue them together.
    Much like the counter part of track mixing.
     
    I think a work around is definitely in order, but don't rule out stem mixing all together.
    I learned a lot about mixing and mastering while researching stems.
    I hope you do as well. Good luck Chuck.

    Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
    Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
    Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
       
    #7
    dcumpian
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4124
    • Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
    • Status: offline
    Re: Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power. 2017/03/06 13:33:16 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    dcumpian
    You cannot freeze a bus, so that isn't an option for tracks routed to a bus and then processing the sum.

     
    No, but you can bounce the bus to a track and archive the tracks that feed the bus.
     
    It should also be noted that running out of CPU will not normally cause stability problems in, just crackles and pops and eventually an audio engine dropout. If SONAR is freezing or crashing under heavy load, something else is going on.
     
    Also the OP didn't mention ASIO buffer size. Increasing this to 1024 or more would be the first step to ease CPU load if the project is at the mixing stage and no more tracking is being done that requires low-latency input monitoring.




    Well, of course. But that isn't freezing which is what the responses were saying. I was just trying to prevent any misconceptions. You can bounce any track or bus and archive the original(s).
     
    Regards,
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #8
    greg_moreira
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 84
    • Joined: 2017/02/08 14:08:24
    • Status: offline
    Re: Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power. 2017/03/06 14:37:20 (permalink)
    chuckebaby
    It might be nice exploring stem cell research anyway
    But seriously, I mixed stems as merely an experiment a few years back (trying to add depth)
    it WAS different than single track mixing, that's for sure.
    I noticed FX stood out more up front and center in the mixes (Delay, Reverb, Exc).
     
    When you begin to use light compression on a smaller group of instruments it begins to glue them together.
    Much like the counter part of track mixing.
     
    I think a work around is definitely in order, but don't rule out stem mixing all together.
    I learned a lot about mixing and mastering while researching stems.
    I hope you do as well. Good luck Chuck.


    this brings up a somewhat off topic, but related question that I have.
     
    When I mix....  Im kind of mixing stems anyhow even if I dont print everything to stems.
     
    like...  all my guitars are routed to a guitar buss within sonar.  Once the balance from one guitar to the next is set, and any individual track effects are set....they all go to that guitar bus, and all I have to do is mix all the guitars collectively by using the guitar buss.  Just to stay on topic, once those fx and balances seem good...as I said I freeze the individual tracks.  That saves me a ton of CPU.  at that point my only 'live' plugins are on the busses.
     
    end result is usually a bass, guitars, drums, vox buss for a basic arrangement.
     
    in effect I have 4 stems to mix even though all the individual tracks arent truly mixed down.
     
    So here is what I am ultimately getting to.  did you ever notice a difference in how the program responds when you experimented with actual stems?
     
    Each of my busses will always have a light compression to glue each instrument together.  and maybe an eq on each buss to shape that whole group of instruments a bit. 
     
    im wondering if say 6 guitars bussed to one track, and light eq and comp applied to the buss "acts" the same as the 6 guitars mixed down into a real stem, and then that one singular track getting processed with the same eq and compression that I would have used in the buss.
     
    it would be an interesting test just to see if any program limitations cause any differences.
    #9
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power. 2017/03/06 19:32:45 (permalink)
    The mixing of inputs to the bus happens before the signal hits any FX processing so there should be no difference between real-time and offline mixing and processing. And, in fact, barring any inconsistent behavior of plugins from one playback to the next (sometimes deliberate), the live audio playing back through a bus will generally null to silence against a bounce of that bus to a track with phase inverted.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #10
    ChuckC
    Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1488
    • Joined: 2010/02/13 01:22:55
    • Location: Port Charlotte, Fl
    • Status: offline
    Re: Need advice on mixing down stems to conserve CPU power. 2017/03/09 05:55:30 (permalink)
    Greg, I agree with Brundlefly.  I can't imagine that there would be any difference at all,  is the same thing. A summing of all tracks and FX going to that bus. 

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
    http://www.everythingiam.net/
    http://www.stormroomstudios.com
    Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
    #11
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1