03-2017 Why do audio tracks show in PRV Track Pane?

Just installed the 03-2017 release, opened a project that has several midi tracks open in the PRV track pane. All of the audio tracks also show up there now.
 
How can I turn that mess off? 
 
Thanks,
Rick

Hi Jim,
 
Thanks for the Quick reply!
 
Yes, I can see how the 'Edit Filter' now works.
 
There do seem to be some anomalies in the track selection process and I do have one project that will not show the midi track notes or controllers in the PRV even when selected in the track pane, it only shows the associated Audio track.
 
I just got started with the update, and did not participate in the Early process, so I need to play and read some before I can determine if it is me or Splat.
 
It is interesting as I almost always use a midi track and audio track for VI's. In the PRV 'Track Pane' I could just hit the mute button and it muted the associated audio track also but this seems to be inconsistent as it will on some tracks and won't on others.
 
Currently scratching head about needing Audio tracks in the PRV when it is for midi editing and someone should be able to mute the Audio track by muting the midi track that drives it?
 
Regardless, I do like the 'Filter' as it is a QUICK way of viewing things. Still wish the audio track thing was a selection in the preferences so people would have individual choices how they wish to work. If you have 25+ midi tracks plus the associated audio tracks showing up in PRV it does get, messy.
 
Again, Thanks for the quick reply.
 
Kind regards,
Rick
 

OK, I think I see what is going on with the selection issues I am having in the PRV.
 
In the Main track pane I have only Audio tracks showing and the Console view follows that. That allows me to only display audio tracks on my control surfaces to keep the bank switching and clutter down.
 
If the Midi track is Hidden in the Main track pane it can not be selected or edited in the PRV now. It appears that the Track Manager is no longer present in the PRV so you can no longer just select the midi tracks for PRV. ( I am guessing the only reason the midi tracks even showed up was because it is a project created prior to this change, but I have not created a New project yet to confirm this.)
 
This is not a good workflow at all for me personally. Two reasons:
#1: I do not want a bunch of midi tracks cluttering things up on my control surfaces.
#2: I really have No use for Audio Tracks in the PRV midi editor. They should be able to be muted/soloed from the midi track itself.
 
I will probably need to roll back until this gets implemented a little better or we find an acceptable a work around.
 
Edit: I just created a New project and I can Hide the midi track in the Console view so it does not show on the control surfaces and it can still be selected in the PRV so my reason #1 is no longer an issue here. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.
 
Kind regards,
Rick

rtucker55

Kev999

Jim Lima [Cakewalk]
...some customers want it always allowed ("hey I need to access the MSR buttons for my audio without switching out of the PRV")...

 
If there is a need for for MSR to be accessable outside of Track View, then perhaps the developers could create a new dedicated MSR window view just for this. Why does it need to clutter up PRV?

Looking through the forums I failed to find all these Customer requests to access the MSR buttons for audio without switching from PRV.  Do you have a link?
 
The more I work with this the less I like it. The filter would be very handy for working on midi tracks only. These Customers must be pretty damn important to get such an illogical request filled.
 
I am more than disappointed...

 
I think a more helpful tone would be beneficial to all. I'm sure Cakewalk has the best of intentions in updating the PRV, which we have all been asking for for years. Let's give them a chance to address unintended consequences and/or UX issues before jumping on them.
 
Regards,
Dan

dcumpian

rtucker55

Kev999

Jim Lima [Cakewalk]
...some customers want it always allowed ("hey I need to access the MSR buttons for my audio without switching out of the PRV")...

 
If there is a need for for MSR to be accessable outside of Track View, then perhaps the developers could create a new dedicated MSR window view just for this. Why does it need to clutter up PRV?

Looking through the forums I failed to find all these Customer requests to access the MSR buttons for audio without switching from PRV.  Do you have a link?
 
The more I work with this the less I like it. The filter would be very handy for working on midi tracks only. These Customers must be pretty damn important to get such an illogical request filled.
 
I am more than disappointed...

 
I think a more helpful tone would be beneficial to all. I'm sure Cakewalk has the best of intentions in updating the PRV, which we have all been asking for for years. Let's give them a chance to address unintended consequences and/or UX issues before jumping on them.
 
Regards,
Dan

I'm not here to be politically correct or express a Helpful tone.
 
The fact is, it makes absolutely no sense to clutter up the PRV (midi editor) with a bunch of audio tracks because someone is too lazy to tab over to a Console view to mute/solo their audio tracks. They could even float the console to use the MSR buttons, or they could set up views, or they could accomplish this with a control surface, or they could do this several other different ways. But no, Cakewalk decides to continue forward with putting audio tracks in the Midi editor track pane. That filter could have been very useful if it were only for midi tracks.
 
Cakewalk also could have put a track manager back into the PRV so people would have a choice about which types of tracks they want to see. The track manager seems to work great in the Track Pane and the Console View.
 
Seriously, I am a little more than pissed about this move thus my lack of Helpful tone.
 
Regards,
Rick

Count me in the "just MIDI, please" camp. 
 
Years ago I started naming my tracks "Bass MIDI" and "Bass AUDIO", which helps me avoid accidentally picking an audio track for the PRV, but that's a kludge. A better solution would be to somehow differentiate audio and MIDI tracks in the new picker window, perhaps giving each a different background color or a tiny icon.

Hi Bob,
 
Thanks for jumping in here with a detailed explanation of the events that has led to this decision.
 
I totally agree with your statement about 'Customization is likely the key' to fulfill the needs of both sides.
 
If we were able to use a Track Manager/Picker for the PRV track pane, similar to the track managers available to the Track and/or Console view, this would likely solve the issue. People could then choose which tracks they want to see in the PRV track pane. (It seems like we could do this before...)
 
I spend the majority of my time in the PRV and use the Track pane exclusively to perfect midi performances that may include one or multiple VI's. The New filter would have been very helpful if it just selected midi tracks. I do not and don't have any intention to use screen sets as they have caused me past issues I don't care to revisit.
 
I remember back when the PRV track pane was introduced and it was a wonderful time saver but you could not save the current selected tracks with the project so you always had to re-select the instruments you were working on when opening the project. I tried for over a year to get an update so that the selections would persist as they were left when you saved your project. I received all kinds of promises that it would be fixed in the next update but it took over a year and a lot of PM's to some Cakewalk folks. Finally, the update was finally made and it was another major time saver.
 
Due to the filter this is not a show stopper for me currently but it will require me making several changes to existing projects for things to work correctly in the PRV track pane as they now Can Not be hidden in the main Track View and still be selected in the PRV Track Pane for editing.
 
Try this:
instantiate a VI and select, have the associated midi and audio tracks created.
In Track view, hide the midi track.
Open the PRV and you will see both the audio and midi track in the Track Pane.
The audio track will already be highlighted in the Track Pane but try to select the midi track to do an edit.
 
I can't do it here if that midi track is hidden in the Main Track View. I almost always hide the midi tracks in the Main track view and the Console view just to save real estate. I would be curious if it is just something on my end causing that or if that is the new intended behavior.
 
Regardless, Thank you again for jumping in and hopefully this will get resolution in the next update.
 
If you have any further questions, Please, feel free to contact me I will try to help in any way I can to bring this current issue to resolution.
 
Kind regards,
Rick Tucker

Bob Currie [Cakewalk]
...enough users made the point that having the MSR buttons available for audio tracks really helped their workflow...

 
When you say MSR, do you really mean just Mute & Solo? Or is the Record button included too?

rtucker55
 
Looking through the forums I failed to find all these Customer requests to access the MSR buttons for audio without switching from PRV.

You won't find such a thread because it's always been possible to include audio tracks in the PRV; it just didn't happen by default as it does now.
 
As for the need/usefulness of M/S buttons in the PRV, think about editing a mix of recorded and MIDI drums or MIDI-reinforcement of a recorded bass or transcribing an audio track to MIDI or doing anything involving related synth and recorded audio parts.

Kev999

Jim Lima [Cakewalk]
...some customers want it always allowed ("hey I need to access the MSR buttons for my audio without switching out of the PRV")...

 
If there is a need for for MSR to be accessable outside of Track View, then perhaps the developers could create a new dedicated MSR window view just for this. Why does it need to clutter up PRV?

Because "some customers" don't view it as "clutter". Whereas having to open or deal with another view would be.
 
The key to any new change, tho, is "CUSTOMIZATION!"
 
 
BTW, Since this really isn't a problem, this thread should probably be in the main Sonar forum.

Regardless of having the Audio tracks clutter the PRV another Issue still remains.
 
If you hide midi tracks in the TV they are no longer select able to edit in the PRV track pane. Every Project I have gets the midi tracks hidden in TV. The more tracks you're working with, the more it starts to matter.
 
If the Track Picker was just put Back into the PRV, Everyone should be satisfied by that fix.