Out of sync audio files

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Qubehead
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April 04, 17 8:46 PM (permalink)

Out of sync audio files

Hello everyone,
 
I recently installed Sonar X2 on my Windows 10 machine. I'm more of an audio editor over recorder and use SONAR for VO projects where I import the VO and then sweeten with music ad fx.
 
I was able to get through the installation process--at first I had some audio issues with staccato sounding tracks and this was solved with experimenting and choosing the correct settings in the audio settings--but when I started doing a project after importing the audio files I found that the files within the project were out of sync with their graphical counterparts on the project timeline. This caused both an uncertainty on where the audio file started and ended and the audio was also cutting off when the graphic for the waveform was still present in the timeline. It's impossible to edit with this happening and I'm stumped on what is causing the issue.
 
Has anyone else encountered this?
 
Qubehead
 
Dell Desktop
Win 10
Quad Core
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#1

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    chuckebaby
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    Re: Out of sync audio files April 04, 17 9:41 PM (permalink)
    I could be wrong... but this sounds like a classic case of a Sample rate issue.
    Check to make sure the audio you are using is not different sample rates.

    Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
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    #2
    Qubehead
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    Re: Out of sync audio files April 04, 17 9:46 PM (permalink)
    Thanks Chuck. I'll check to see if the project settings were different than the imported audio files. If I understand your response then this could happen if for example the project setting is 44.1kHz and I imported files that were 48k?
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Out of sync audio files April 04, 17 10:39 PM (permalink)
    Your issue could be cause by a few things. First I see no mention of an audio interface. Sonar works best using ASIO drivers. You can use on board for simple work like your doing but then it's best to us WASAPI or even install Asio4all. 
    It sounds more like CPU lag so also run Latency Monitor and find out if background processes are interrupting. I get that sort of behavior if my internet is on. 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
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    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #4
    Qubehead
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    Re: Out of sync audio files April 04, 17 11:52 PM (permalink)
    Thank you Cactus. I will take a look at what drivers I finally settled on that solved the audio glitches when I first installed the program and I'll also check for any CPU lag. I think the assumption can be that there's so much horsepower in today's machines that latency shouldn't be an issue for uses that aren't graphically intensive but one never knows. Thanks again for the response.
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    chuckebaby
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    Re: Out of sync audio files April 05, 17 0:32 PM (permalink)
    Qubehead
    Thanks Chuck. I'll check to see if the project settings were different than the imported audio files. If I understand your response then this could happen if for example the project setting is 44.1kHz and I imported files that were 48k?


    not exactly, I mean if you have a project that has mixed sample rates.
    tracks that are 44 and tracks that are 48 in the same project. sometimes this can cause out of synch and speed differentials.
    This could be a case where some files are okay but others are not.
     
    you might also want to make sure some of the plug ins your using are not latency inducers. Even if you are just playing back audio you'll run in to issues. Try hitting the global on/off switch in the control bar to disable plug ins. if this cures the issue then you know its a plug in.

    Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
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    #6
    Qubehead
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    Re: Out of sync audio files April 05, 17 1:08 AM (permalink)
    Ahh... thank you for the clairification.
    #7
    tlw
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    Re: Out of sync audio files April 05, 17 3:00 AM (permalink)
    Qubehead
    I think the assumption can be that there's so much horsepower in today's machines that latency shouldn't be an issue for uses that aren't graphically intensive but one never knows.


    Latency can indeed be a major issue when dealing with low-latency audio recording and production work on even the most powerful PCs if they aren't optimally configured for what is a very specialised job.

    The audio driver has a 'buffer' which is essentially how much audio it stores ahead of the current play time. If that buffer at any point is empty then you get glitching at best and dropouts, where the DAW audio engine stops, at worst. The problem essentially is that Windows is not a real-time operating system but a multi-tasking operating system that relies on serving the demands of various drivers and applications all competing for its attention. So if e.g. a device driver grabs Windows attention for a period longer than the audio buffer then it's dropout time.

    The root cause of this is Windows method of making PCI bus/delayed procedure calls to the hardware and how long the hardware and driver takes to respond. Wireless network cards, for example, frequently cause issues because for whatever reason they can grab Windows attention for an extended period, though again it's only milliseconds this can be enough to stall a DAW unless the audio driver buffer is large enough to cover them. But a large enough buffer can result in too much latency....

    There's a useful free application called latencymon which can report on how much of a problem PCI/dpc latency is and what might be the cause of it.

    Most of the time Windows for all intents and purposes runs OK for 'normal' applications. If Word or even a game pauses for say 20 milliseconds while Windows does something else the user won't notice the 'hiccup', it's that short. A DAW such as Sonar (or any other DAW) would notice it though if the audio driver buffer is set to under 20ms. Which may not sound much but the resulting lag is very obvious to most musicians.

    The 'usual' Windows audio drivers have a pretty huge buffer, far too large for serious audio recording and playing software instruments though perfectly fine for media and video players. Which is why the preferred driver model for Windows DAWs is a purpose-made interface with an ASIO driver supplied by the interface manufacturer. Sonar Platinum can also use WASAPI drivers in a way that can often give low latency with the on-board sound chips present on motherboards, but that's very recent. ASIO drivers can give low latency, though they aren't all born equal any more than audio interfaces are.

    ASIO4ALL is a driver which kind of emulates what an ASIO driver does and is claimed to work with pretty much any on-board sound chip. People have varying rates of success with it, it can be tricky to set up and reports indicate it sometimes causes problems if not uninstalled before a 'real' ASIO driver is installed. It might be worth a try if all you need is low-latency playback/software synths.

    Most DAWs and audio processing place little if any strain on the graphics system by the way. Intel's on-chip graphics are perfectly up to the job. Which is actually quite useful if, like many DAW users, you want to make a computer as acoustically quiet as possible - no need for noisy gpu fans. In fact a powerful Windows DAW tends to look much like a powerful gaming PC except without the emphasis on graphics performance and with (hopefully) far fewer fans.

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    #8
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Out of sync audio files April 05, 17 11:00 PM (permalink)
    Correct me if I'm wrong, But I thought Sonar automatically converts any clips into what ever the projects clock rate is set at. It seems you can dump MP3, etc and they will now be stored as 24/44.1 or 24/48 etc. wave files in the audio folder.  I myself have dumped a lot of different clips into Sonar and they always play. 
    And one other thing is X2 was a version that had many known issues so who knows. 
     

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #9
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