Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist

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ruddiger.webber
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2017/04/24 08:07:20 (permalink)

Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist

Hey there everyone!
 
I'm experiencing something very frustrating. First, I'm using Sonar Artist on a Lenovo IDeapad700 which has Realtek HD laptop speakers. I am recording through an Scarlett dual input. It works really well to record through this with a condenser mic. Anyway, the recording works fine. I have kept it simple, nothing but audio tracks (vocals and guitar) 16 or so of them. No MIDI tracks or anything.
 
Now when I mix and export I am trying to export to WAV. I want to share this song with a friend. I do so and it sounds great. That is, until I try listening to the track through normal laptop speakers. When I mix it down and listen to the song through my focusrite usb interface it sounds fine. When I unplug the USB interface and listen to the exact same file it sounds like ****. The mix changes completely. I've noticed that when to comes to mixdown settings there is a Hardware Output menu that has the focusrite output selected. In fact its the only option I can select. I have a feeling that has something to do with it. Ive tried mixing down at different bitrates, with and without dithering, everything I can change pretty much besides the .WAV file type. I've tried changing my playback input/output options but I can't use anything but the focusrite. It seems to me before I hooked up and configured the focusrite I could listen to things through my speakers with SONAR. I can't now. I can't change the output to anything I can hear and I also can't mix the song down to any hardware output which allows me to hear the song, with the exception of the focusrite. I've looked for drivers for SONAR artist that might work with my realtek internal speakers but I cannot find anything.
 
This is incredibly frustrating. I have no idea what to. Can someone please offer some information? I hope I provided enough details, let me know if I haven't. I've seen other posts like this before by searching through google but I've never been able to find any answers. Sorry if I missed a solution in another thread. Cheers.
#1

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    dwardzala
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/24 13:58:07 (permalink)
    When you playback the wave file are you playing it from Sonar or some other program?
     
    What are your export settings?
     
    Have you tried to play your wave file on something else (like headphones or earbuds plugged into the audio out onthe computer, not the interface) to see if maybe its your speakers that are the issue?

    Dave
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    #2
    lfm
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/24 15:03:35 (permalink)
    Different audio interfaces support only certain formats/protocols.
     
    WDM and ASIO are most common for low latency recording purposes.
     
    But to listen through your regular audio device, you may have to select Directsound or similar instead.
    So in Sonar select different audio driver  and possibly go through a setup test.

     
    When you find that - compare what you hear with ordinary same headphones and usually 3.5mm plug on computer and 1/4"(6.25mm) on interface.
    Then it should not be worlds apart, but some difference for sure.
    #3
    ruddiger.webber
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/24 16:07:18 (permalink)
    I am playing back as the file i exported, so just as a wav with groove music player. It sounds fine as long as i am listening to the file (no matter the player) through the Focusrite Scarlett . It sounds horrible when playing back through the laptops speakers or with headphones (sounds the same through the speaker or headphones). Its weird. The files sound changes even after im done exporting, i.e. i will export file to desktop. Listen to it with the headphones plugged into the focusrite interface which is hooked up to my computer through a USB cable. I will then unhook the Focusrite and listen to the exact same file through headphones or laptop speaker and the sound has changed entirely (all the playback pans to one side, volume on everything is turned down and everything sounds thin and weak). However im not suggesting its a soeaker issue. Its like my soundcare suddenly becomes disabled or everything compresses horribly when i unplug the focusrite usb interface. Its really strange.

    I have tried all the export settings I could. Ive mixed down in 16 bit, 24, and 32. Ive tried 44.1, 48 and other frequencies. Ive tried the dithering (rectangular, triangular, none). Ive mixed down the entire mix option. The only thing i cannot change is the output hardware. It only allows me to choose the scarlett focusrite as a hardware output.
    #4
    ruddiger.webber
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/24 16:12:47 (permalink)
    The thing is I cant select anything else as an output. The onky other thing i can select is the ASIO direct sound mic input and ASIO direct sound output (they are called something like that, im at work and cant check). However the output keeps saying the the ASIO direct sound device is not connected. When i still select that ASIO direct sound output, i receive a message saying my master has been muted and will be until i select the proper hardware output for it. Its like there are no drivers for my realtek speakers and the ASIO ones it does list arent working because SONAR thinks they arent connected or something. I apologize if this is too vague and doesnt make much sense. I will clarify after im home from work tonight and can check the exact titles and preferences.

    My initial impression is i need to reinstall drivers that will allow SONAR to recognize my laptops sound card and speakers but I cant find anything online. Are the regular windows 10 drivers? Thanks for your help.
    #5
    karma1959
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/24 16:17:39 (permalink)
    if you're just playing the WAV file back via a music player and it sounds bad - that doesn't have anything to do with Sonar - you may want to check what driver Windows is using and what the associated settings are.  Given you said everything is panned to one side, sounds like Windows audio driver / settings may need to be reviewed.
     
     
     

    Sonar Platinum x64 on Win10 64, Dell T7400 w/ 8 Xeon cores, 8 Gbyte RAM, 3 hard drives, RME Fireface UFX, UAD-1, Mackie Control, Adam A7X
    #6
    karma1959
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/24 16:17:39 (permalink)
    if you're just playing the WAV file back via a music player and it sounds bad - that doesn't have anything to do with Sonar - you may want to check what driver Windows is using and what the associated settings are.  Given you said everything is panned to one side, sounds like Windows audio driver / settings may need to be reviewed.
     
     
     

    Sonar Platinum x64 on Win10 64, Dell T7400 w/ 8 Xeon cores, 8 Gbyte RAM, 3 hard drives, RME Fireface UFX, UAD-1, Mackie Control, Adam A7X
    #7
    gswitz
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/24 16:19:07 (permalink)
    Try unplugging your interface and rebooting your pc, then play the file. I'm trying to eliminate the chance that your sound card is locked to a bit depth it doesn't support.

    Make sure you export the file as 44.1 24 bit for this test.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #8
    ruddiger.webber
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/24 18:10:57 (permalink)
    Yeah but its only this file i mixed in sonar that sounds bad. Every other file on my computer plays fine with this music player. This file sounds bad in every player i try unless i listen to it through the focusrite set up.
    #9
    ruddiger.webber
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/24 18:11:38 (permalink)
    I will try this aftet work. Thanks. I did try this last night but at a different bit depth.
    #10
    ruddiger.webber
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/25 00:23:36 (permalink)
    Hey gswitz,
     
    I mixed down the file to wave at 41.1 and 24 bits. Unplugged the interface, shut down and restarted and the same thing happened as before, the song sounded awful. I used the audio midi auto-setup thing under the Utilities tab and chose to switch the inputs and outputs to the default ASIO driver that says my device is not connected. When I did this I couldn't hear any playback through SONAR. However I mixed the song down under the settings 41.1 and 24bits and I could listen to the file through my laptop speakers with slightly improved quality over my previous mixes, however it still was horrible sounding. I don't know if this info helps.
    #11
    ruddiger.webber
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/25 00:59:08 (permalink)
    Just an update,
    I changed the Audio Playback and Recording driver setting to MME and was able to hearing everything on SONAR. However the mix changed quite a bit and sounding exactly what I hear when I was mixing down the project, exporting it and listening to the file without my USB interface. It seems like when I was listening to the exported wave file without my usb interface I was hearing it as it sounded with the MME 32 Bit driver mode. Is there not anyway to mix the project down at the quality the USB interface provides and just listen to it in that quality no matter if I'm listening to it through the USB interface itself? It seems like I'm missing a step or mixing down and exporting improperly. I'm going to read up way more on exporting
     
    #12
    lfm
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/25 09:08:14 (permalink)
    I think the ASIO interface does not like many other audio interfaces at the same time.
    Try and run WDM instead in Sonar, I think it allows multiple interfaces.
     
    So I think your issue is to do with running two interfaces, not at all about export settings in Sonar.
    #13
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/25 09:16:19 (permalink)
    There are a few points which you need to address.
     
    First of all, the only time you ever dither is when going from a higher bit depth (24) to a lower one (16 bit)
    Secondly, very few media players support 24 bit playback (Windows Media Player certainly doesn't) so you are correct in mixing down to 16 bit. This is when you add dither for the one and only time
     
    Third, in order to test your mix, when you've exported it, re-import it back into SONAR into the same project but on it's own track and A/B between your mix and the export.
     
    You can set this up quite easily.
     
    First, route the export directly to your Main Outs (Interface), bypassing your Master Buss and any Fx which might be on.
    Then using exclusive solo, switch between the 2. There should be zero difference in quality. If this is the case then all of your problems can be attributed to your monitoring chain, i.e. everything outside of SONAR

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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    #14
    ruddiger.webber
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/25 14:06:16 (permalink)
    Hmmm thanks Bristol Jonesey, Im going to try this tonight. Thank you for the explanation! I will let you know what I find!
    #15
    ruddiger.webber
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    Re: Help with MIXING and EXPORTING with SONAR Artist 2017/04/25 14:07:57 (permalink)
    Also, Ifm, I have tried the wdm setting and it made everything sound quite awful again...im going to look into WDM setting more though. Thankyou.
    #16
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