greg54
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Importing and mastering
Hi -
I know this is a dumb question, but I can't find any tutorials explaining this. When you're going to master a song, you have to export then import the entire mix. So after you export, what exactly do you do to import? Do I go into Sonar, click on New Project, then import the entire mix into that?
Thanks,
Greg
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chuckebaby
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 15:57:31
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Take your exported, stereo mix (preferably a 24 bit export with a peak of no more than -3db) And simply drag it in to sonar. its as easy as that. you can import it if you'd like using the File> Audio> Import. But I typically just grab the file from Windows Explorer (the place where I saved it) and Click/Drag it right on to the timeline. it will automatically create an Audio track. This is a good thread on Mastering levels: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3524435 Also find a nice flow/chain of plug in FX for your mastering chain. I use meters in the Master Bus and plug ins in the Track Bus My Mastering Chain consists of: 1-The SSL Bus compressor first. 2- then sometimes followed by the CA-2A for Analog coloring= a 1 to 1.5 db push / very subtle. 3- Linear EQ to drop off/filter APPROX 30HZ and under. 4- Then the L3. 5- Followed by the L2. 6- Some more light Analog coloring. 7-The Secret sauce.
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interpolated
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 16:00:33
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Here is what I do personally. Since every part is a group channel once mixed down, I export them separately into a new project. Then any slight tweaks or edits like adding an overall filter sweep on a part can be easily added without too much fuss.
So I have working independent stems thus removing any extra processing requirements which means I can use higher-quality plug-ins on them without worrying about any glitches. Reducing the audio path, so it's easier to concentrate on the one thing.
If you have a bit of whitespace (silent parts) between each stem, cut out those parts, make them clips and trim to save on disk space.
Some people / mastering engineers prefer the isolated stems without equalisation or compression so it's a good idea to keep all this until the final render IMHO. Any processing you do at this stage should be minimal and not exaggerated to cover up mistakes.
It's not a dumb question BTW because asking for advice is healthier than guessing you around things. The only similar thing about our systems is the choice of external sound device.
I just wish I could finish a project.
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greg54
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 16:12:40
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chuckebaby
Take your exported, stereo mix (preferably a 24 bit export with a peak of no more than -3db)
And simply drag it in to sonar. its as easy as that. you can import it if you'd like using the File> Audio> Import.
But I typically just grab the file from Windows Explorer (the place where I saved it) and Click/Drag it right on to the timeline. it will automatically create an Audio track.
My brain likes simplicity. When you say to "drag it into Sonar," do you mean into the existing song, or into a New Project? As for Windows Explorer, I exported it to wherever Sonar exported to. Does it automatically export it to Windows Explorer? This all seems a bit complicated and is a bit over my head. Are there any tutorials for this? Thanks, Greg
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interpolated
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 16:24:33
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Put more simply then.
In Windows Explorer, outside your current project folder create a stem folder. Or even on another drive if that's an option.
Export each group channel like your drums, keys etc. to their own stereo track in the newly created stems folder.
You can choose to do this at the export stage by selecting to export these as individual busses. You should only need to go through this process once. Bypass any limiters and send effects you may be using as you don't any unwanted sounds in your individual stems.
Create a new project import the stems as suggested above. Remove any unwanted silent parts. Maybe my ways are unique. I will try to find a tutorial for you.
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interpolated
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 16:30:43
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In retrospect, my way is probably more complicated. If you did it with just a stereo track only I would still make sure my mastering chain was bypassed and reapplied in another project.
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highlandermak
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 16:51:42
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So here's a silly question. Why can't you master your master bus? Reason I ask is I've used lursen mastering plugin in my master bus and although I don't have as much control have not been displeased either. In theory couldn't you use the master bus and add your eq, l2, l3 etc... to achieve the same results?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 17:44:50
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highlandermak
So here's a silly question. Why can't you master your master bus? Reason I ask is I've used lursen mastering plugin in my master bus and although I don't have as much control have not been displeased either. In theory couldn't you use the master bus and add your eq, l2, l3 etc... to achieve the same results?
Yes of course you can. I do this all the time for a quick rough & ready master with a chain of T-Racks modules
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timidi
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 18:15:11
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☄ Helpfulby jude77 2017/05/01 18:21:00
The whole concept of "mastering" is way overblown all over the interweb. Especially when referring to 1 song.
Mastering=finishing. Do it however you like.
If it's part of a collection, that's maybe a different subject.
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abacab
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 18:44:04
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interpolated
Put more simply then.
In Windows Explorer, outside your current project folder create a stem folder. Or even on another drive if that's an option.
Export each group channel like your drums, keys etc. to their own stereo track in the newly created stems folder.
You can choose to do this at the export stage by selecting to export these as individual busses. You should only need to go through this process once. Bypass any limiters and send effects you may be using as you don't any unwanted sounds in your individual stems.
Create a new project import the stems as suggested above. Remove any unwanted silent parts. Maybe my ways are unique. I will try to find a tutorial for you.
I believe that mastering is normally when you are working with a song as a single stereo track, following mixdown. What you describe sounds like the mixing process, working with sub-mixes, etc. The simple answer to the OP's question is to export your final mix as a stereo wav file to a folder somewhere on your computer. Then open that file up by dragging it into a new project in Sonar. The wav should then open as a new stereo track in Sonar, so you are now ready to do your mastering!
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interpolated
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 19:11:45
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Yeah it is, I like to be able to balance everything on it's own. Probably a throw back to working on large projects with under powered computers. I did readdress the question saying just a stereo mix without any final compression and limiting would be also work.
People work in different ways.
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greg54
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 19:27:53
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abacab
The simple answer to the OP's question is to export your final mix as a stereo wav file to a folder somewhere on your computer. Then open that file up by dragging it into a new project in Sonar. The wav should then open as a new stereo track in Sonar, so you are now ready to do your mastering!
That answers it. Thank you! The other answers, although appreciated, are just a bit over my head. Greg
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interpolated
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 19:35:26
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Sorry Greg. I will try harder to focus on the answer better next time.
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abacab
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/04/30 20:37:46
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Good to hear that worked out for you! There are a few good mastering tutorials on YouTube if you Google them!  I suppose that there are a few that just throw some mastering plugins on their Master Bus while they are mixing and call it a day...
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greg54
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/05/01 14:41:00
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I don't want to sound like I don't appreciate everyone's answers. It's just that I'm learning and do not understand a lot of things. So some things don't register in my brain yet. But I still very much appreciate everyone's comments.
Thanks!
Greg
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/05/01 16:35:54
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As I said in post #8, you don't HAVE to do the export/import thing - just plunk some mastering fx on your master buss and get mastering
The only caveat is stressing your system too much, though any decent modern system should be ok
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chuckebaby
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/05/01 17:34:16
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highlandermak
So here's a silly question. Why can't you master your master bus? Reason I ask is I've used lursen mastering plugin in my master bus and although I don't have as much control have not been displeased either. In theory couldn't you use the master bus and add your eq, l2, l3 etc... to achieve the same results?
You can put a Boss distortion pedal in the FX bin on your Master bus if you'd like  . The reason I choose to keep my mastering plug ins in the track FX bin is because I like a clean master bus for using Analyzing plug ins in Master bus. If you load up your master bus with FX and then put the Metering plug ins last in the chain, I have found a 3db difference (+3db) using Waves Peak and Waves frequency analyzer. If you put all your plug ins in the track FX bin and only use the master bus for metering I have seen a true 0db measurement. What im trying to say in a nut shell is this... (Only my opinion) Keep your metering plug ins and FX plug ins separated. They are 2 totally different animals. One is for coloring, the other is for analyzing. As I said, do as you wish but you might find this to be a good work habit, ahh or maybe not. that's your choice. Do a test: put all your plug ins in the master bus and use the Waves peak..(or any metering plug in) last in that chain (you are measuring track output and FX = Master bus: Sum). Now move the plug ins to the track and leave only the metering plug ins in the Master bus. Compare your results. I came up with a 3db difference. hence I changed my work habits a long time ago to keep these 2 tools in 2 separate locations.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/05/01 18:09:57
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When I think of mastering it's a pretty straight forward process. It is the last step where the stereo file is polished to perfection. top and tails, fade in/out if needed. Overall level and then possibly some EQ and limiting if needed.
I'm against combining mixdown with mastering unless like said above, it's just a rough demo of the song.
So I export the the song sounding as best as possible and I will might put something like the LP multi band in the master buss bin just to check for overs. I find the multi band useful for pointing out where the issue is so I'm sort of using it like a spectrum analyze .
So the stereo wave export is not finished, mastering is the next step.
I use a wave editor for this step as they are optimized for working with stereo files.
If Sonar is all you have then fine, but the job is much easier in a wave editor like Wave Lab or Sound Forge. If you plan on doing a lot of mastering you might want to check one out. Wave Lab Elements is only $99. I got Sound Forge ( basic) free with a Sony Turntable. It's pretty cool for "mastering" old vinyl.
Of note is most of my Sonar plug ins are also available in my other software.
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greg54
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/05/01 18:36:08
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/05/02 15:22:53
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timidi
The whole concept of "mastering" is way overblown all over the interweb. Especially when referring to 1 song.
Mastering=finishing. Do it however you like.
If it's part of a collection, that's maybe a different subject.
"Overblown" is a relative perception in my opinion. I find that there is some great info. available. https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/level-practices-part-2/
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Leee
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/05/02 20:39:33
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I'm lazy when it comes to mastering, which is probably why my masters aren't as good as people who select each individual processing FX and adjust each one. I have Izotope's Ozone 7. I just add it to my master bus, click on one of my favorite presets, do a little tweaking in each of the modules and call it done. I end up with a final mix that's punchier, has more stereo separation, and better EQ'd. The punchiness is just boosting the loudness, but I'm careful not to add too much.
If you can afford Ozone, don't like spending a lot of time mastering but have a basic understanding of mastering, this is one of the quickest and painless ways to go. They have dozens of presets for different types of music and individual instruments. You can just go with what the preset offers, or tweak a little bit to get it just how you like it.
The only drawback with Ozone is that it's a memory hog, so I always add it after I'm done writing and mixing the song. If you try to play with Ozone, even with a fast computer, you get glitches and dropouts. But as I said, the results are often quite fantastic.
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interpolated
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/05/03 09:39:47
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A project I'm working on at the moment uses 96K/32-bit, 20 individual tracks and 4 or 5 group busses. I've been light on the effects so far because I want to save any final effects like overall reverb until the end. Even though I have an older 6-core AMD setup it seems to be coping. Original done in an older Cubase 2.2 project bounced out from the C9 demo.
The tracks have been divided, bounced and trimmed as well. So that should save on the resources. Anyway I decided to enable to performance meters and noted all 6 cores were in use all under the 20% however as I lost so much work in the past through crashes and file corruption I still work this failsafe method.
I have one folder for working projects and another for mixdowns & masters. This keep things tidy and organised for me at least.
Plug-in wise it's a mixture of Cakewalk, VSL Suite, Focusrite, Universal Audio to name a few which I am using to bring all the sound together. Because the track was old and had some reverb added already, I had to narrow the stereo width and using a De-Verb plug in to remove some ambience.
Ozone is a fantastic all in one package, it's very flexible and Izotope themself publish mastering tips.
I really want to upgrade to remove all the bottlenecks in my setup.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Importing and mastering
2017/05/03 13:38:53
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interpolated
Yeah it is, I like to be able to balance everything on it's own. Probably a throw back to working on large projects with under powered computers. I did readdress the question saying just a stereo mix without any final compression and limiting would be also work.
People work in different ways.
I've done some Stem mastering as well. It has its uses for sure. I find mastering stems has different sound characteristics compared to mastering a stereo file. For example if you put delay or reverb on your guitar stem file, they tend to be enhanced 3X fold in the master because the limiting, compression and multiband EQ are hearing the delay/reverb lot cleaner than if it was some what drowned in with a stereo file. Theoretically it shouldn't because the stems are being summed to the master bus, however, I found this is not the case, the repeats become clarified and pronounced.
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