Helpful ReplyCan someone tell me what's wrong with this method?

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mrpippy2
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2017/05/18 13:57:08 (permalink)

Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method?

I have what I'm sure is a pretty unorthodox approach to mixing and mastering, and thought I'd share it and hope to hear about the drawbacks.
 
I don't use busses.  I make sure the drums are all mixed, eq'd, and compressed within AD or AD2 so they sound good just being recorded to a single stereo track using the 'Bounce to Track" function to convert the MIDI track to audio.  This in effect gives me a drum bus (I believe) which I can apply any ProChannel effect if I feel the need to.  Other tracks I just apply effects to on the track itself by dragging the effect name from the media browser onto the track pane, and don't even bounce them. I'll use the ProChannel for all insert-type effects.  Vocals I don't do all that often, but I found I can use Nectar Elements using the method described above, without having to use any sends or busses.  I can control lots of different vocal effects, including reverb wet/dry mix, from within the Nectar Elements control panel.
 
To master, I just "Select None", and then "Bounce to Track".  This in effect gives me a stereo mixdown (I believe) to which I then typically just apply the Pro Channel Concrete Limiter for some added gain.  Compression and EQ has all been done at the track level (or in AD for the drums) so I rarely apply those on the stereo mix.  After muting all tracks besides the Concrete Limited master stereo track (which is usually something like track 29 at this point), I then export both as a WAV and MP3, and boom, I'm done.
 
Obviously if I'm sending to an outside mastering house I would skip the last step, and send out the un-limited stereo mixdown of all the tracks.  Can anyone give some feedback on this method?  Positive, negative, constructive, etc.  I'm all ears!  Thanks for taking the time to read this.
 
        Joel

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rscain
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 14:07:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby karhide 2017/05/18 14:14:14
If it works for you, go with it. There really are no rules.

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Amicus717
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 14:18:14 (permalink)
I'd say that if that approach produces results you are happy with, then there is nothing wrong with it at all.
 
All I'd suggest beyond that is don't be afraid to explore other methods. It always nice to have extra options in your toolbox in terms of applying effects and mixing, and experimenting with different ways of mixing your music might provide you with some creative inspiration. 
 
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Zargg
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 14:40:11 (permalink)
Hi. I can only pile on with "if it works", you're good 
You might get more control if using buses..
I did the same in the early Cakewalk versions, when I didn't know about, or there were not any buses available.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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Cactus Music
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 14:44:09 (permalink)
It's whats ultimately cool about all the options we have. As said there's no rules as how you end up outputting a good mix as long as you understand and control the signal path. 
I don't often use sub busses I see no point for the way I work and my generally lower track counts. 

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mrpippy2
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 14:51:49 (permalink)
I wanted to confirm that I wasn't doing something egregiously wrong that would be noticably degrading the quality of my mixes. And I didn't think I was; I think it's just a different path to reaching the same destination. One thing I've grown to find value in is the intentional REDUCTION of flexibility. Printing an effect to a track early on and moving on, having the drums on a stereo track as soon as possible, etc. I think it's more along the lines of the way engineers 20-40 years ago HAD to work, and, for me anyway, too many choices and possibilities just freezes me up. I'm enjoying the feedback here!

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thedukewestern
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 15:01:25 (permalink)
I can see a few minor drawbacks to this:
 
1) it might be harder to see an effect signal chain on a certain track to quickly identify something your hearing without a good deal of mouse clicks.  One of the advantages to using the effect bin in the track itself is "auditioning" different effects.  
 
2) Summing all the drum sounds together will prevent those sources from being available as a sidechain input with the rest of the mix.  I made a video of a workaround here:  https://www.youtube.com/w..?v=glRU9H37Fbo&t=1s
 
3) not using busses verses using them means you may be able to cut down on your cpu processing drain if you did do things like... use 2 main reverbs for the whole mix instead of individual ones.  You could also use 1 main delay buss and feed its repeats into different reverb busses, for example so the repeats aren't dry.
 
 

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Zargg
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 15:02:47 (permalink)
mrpippy2
I wanted to confirm that I wasn't doing something egregiously wrong that would be noticably degrading the quality of my mixes. And I didn't think I was; I think it's just a different path to reaching the same destination. One thing I've grown to find value in is the intentional REDUCTION of flexibility. Printing an effect to a track early on and moving on, having the drums on a stereo track as soon as possible, etc. I think it's more along the lines of the way engineers 20-40 years ago HAD to work, and, for me anyway, too many choices and possibilities just freezes me up. I'm enjoying the feedback here!

An "old saying" says: if it sounds good, it is good 

Ken Nilsen
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thedukewestern
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 15:10:06 (permalink)
mrpippy2
I wanted to confirm that I wasn't doing something egregiously wrong that would be noticably degrading the quality of my mixes.

 
Not at all - -  the only thing I can actually think of is WHERE in the signal path the effect is - perhaps someone else can chime in here?   There's a signal flow chart on the support site somewhere. I think applying an effect to the waveform itself will hit sonar before the input gain?  If so - that would also yeild some restrictions.
 
mrpippy2
One thing I've grown to find value in is the intentional REDUCTION of flexibility. Printing an effect to a track early on and moving on, having the drums on a stereo track as soon as possible, etc. I think it's more along the lines of the way engineers 20-40 years ago HAD to work, and, for me anyway, too many choices and possibilities just freezes me up. I'm enjoying the feedback here!



I use my outboard preamps in this way - record all types of gain and saturation...- guitar pedals,  I couldn't agree more.  Yesterday while tracking acoustic I put moved to a completely different room and used a totally different mic setup knowing it would be right - right off the bat.  The creative prcess is not - netflix .. with ten thousand unknown choices that will only eat up an hour and a half of your time with zero rusults hahaha!
post edited by thedukewestern - 2017/05/18 15:36:11

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mrpippy2
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 16:23:13 (permalink)
thedukewestern
I can see a few minor drawbacks to this:
 
1) it might be harder to see an effect signal chain on a certain track to quickly identify something your hearing without a good deal of mouse clicks.  One of the advantages to using the effect bin in the track itself is "auditioning" different effects.  
 
2) Summing all the drum sounds together will prevent those sources from being available as a sidechain input with the rest of the mix.  I made a video of a workaround here:  https://www.youtube.com/w..?v=glRU9H37Fbo&t=1s
 
3) not using busses verses using them means you may be able to cut down on your cpu processing drain if you did do things like... use 2 main reverbs for the whole mix instead of individual ones.  You could also use 1 main delay buss and feed its repeats into different reverb busses, for example so the repeats aren't dry.
 
 


Very helpful and valuable feedback in both of your posts. Thank you!

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timidi
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 16:31:40 (permalink)
If I understand correctly, no need to mute all the tracks. Just solo the final bounced track for export. Or, better yet, just drag it to whatever folder (or desktop) you want.

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mrpippy2
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 16:40:41 (permalink)
timidi
If I understand correctly, no need to mute all the tracks. Just solo the final bounced track for export. Or, better yet, just drag it to whatever folder (or desktop) you want.


Yes, soloing would be much quicker. No earthly idea why I didn't think of that. And I didn't know I could just drag the finalized stereo track to a location outside of Sonar. But then I assume I wouldn't get the various export options, such as bitrate or MP3 option. I'll certainly try it though!

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timidi
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Re: Can someone tell me what's wrong with this method? 2017/05/18 18:59:54 (permalink)
mrpippy2
timidi
 But then I assume I wouldn't get the various export options, such as bitrate or MP3 option. 



correct.
 

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