Some clips are 16 bit and some 24 bit?

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tdf
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2017/05/23 04:16:10 (permalink)

Some clips are 16 bit and some 24 bit?

Im using sonar platinum up to date. I'm having trouble opening new .cwb files and read of an issue with mixing 16 bit and 24 bit in a single project giving .cwb an issue opening. To look into that, I opened some of the individual clips in sound forge to see what bit they are, and some are 16 bit and some 24 bit. They have not been bounced out or exported yet, just in a project work file. I am using some midi that then becomes audio in the project file, and the odd thing is that I played bass and guitar both in the same Tascam 2 x 2 input into the project, and one clip says it is 16 bit and the other 24. My vocals from the Tascam are also 24 bit, while some keyboard tracks from the Tascam are 16 bit. I have the project set from the beginning at 24 bit. I don't know where to start to understand how this is happening and how to prevent it? Settings on the Tascam control panel don't have a bit selection, and the book says its 24 bit. So, if the interface is 24 and the project is set to 24 how is this happening? Thanks, treesha
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    scook
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    Re: Some clips are 16 bit and some 24 bit? 2017/05/23 05:08:31 (permalink)
    Bit depth is set in two places in preferences:
    The Driver is set in Audio > Driver Settings
    The Project settings are in File > Audio Data
     
     
    SONAR can handle audio files at different bit depths. I do not believe this is an issue with bundles. At least this is the first I have read about it. IIRC, there was an issue mixing mono and stereo clips in a bundle that appeared around the release of Vista. It was a Windows imposed limitation how riff files were handled.
    Having re-read the posts regarding the error message supplied in the following post, I am not sure whether the cause is a mix of mono and stereo, different bit depths or both. It apparently started with Win7 not Vista. I have not messed with bundles in years except to test and the tests were not very elaborate. Really have no use for the format. It is too easy to manage projects with per-project audio folders.
     
    It may be instructive to post the error message(s) associated with this problem.
    post edited by scook - 2017/05/24 14:35:13
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    tdf
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    Re: Some clips are 16 bit and some 24 bit? 2017/05/23 18:02:04 (permalink)
    Thanks, it goes like this, click to open song.cwb, which I have a few versions of in a few on and off laptop locations, unpack bundle box, uncheck the 2 boxes for store project audio in its own folder and create one file per clip. Sonar Platinum box appears "Unexpected Error Code hr:2359296261, File: HRESULT: 3221225747" . I since learned that if I leave those boxes checked, the file will open. I don't quite get how to do the per project audio folders yet as Ive used sonar versions this way for many years, and even since getting platinum, and never had a .cwb not open. Probably did 6 songs since getting platinum and all were similarly a mix of elements and had no problems until the last 2.
    Second, I looked at the locations you mentioned and found that the record depth was 24 but the rendering was set at 16. So bouncing and effects were at 16, so that mystery solved. Thank you. Help says "The default value of 32 allows virtually lossless processing." So should this be 32 and not 24? Are there any issues with the effects etc that come with platinum needing 16 or 24 ?
    thanks, treesha
     
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    tdf
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    Re: Some clips are 16 bit and some 24 bit? 2017/05/23 18:02:42 (permalink)
    Thanks, it goes like this, click to open song.cwb, which I have a few versions of in a few on and off laptop locations, unpack bundle box, uncheck the 2 boxes for store project audio in its own folder and create one file per clip. Sonar Platinum box appears "Unexpected Error Code hr:2359296261, File: HRESULT: 3221225747" . I since learned that if I leave those boxes checked, the file will open. I don't quite get how to do the per project audio folders yet as Ive used sonar versions this way for many years, and even since getting platinum, and never had a .cwb not open. Probably did 6 songs since getting platinum and all were similarly a mix of elements and had no problems until the last 2.
    Second, I looked at the locations you mentioned and found that the record depth was 24 but the rendering was set at 16. So bouncing and effects were at 16, so that mystery solved. Thank you. Help says "The default value of 32 allows virtually lossless processing." So should this be 32 and not 24? Are there any issues with the effects etc that come with platinum needing 16 or 24 ?
    thanks, treesha
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Some clips are 16 bit and some 24 bit? 2017/05/23 22:24:52 (permalink)
    I'm to understand that all processing/ rendering in Sonar should be 32.  
    Only on export do I change to 16 for CD's. Everything should be rendered at 32. 
    And you should be fine from now on if you set both places shown by scook to 24. 
    You should see what happens if you start using CWP files. Bundle files are a left over for the past and not many bother with them anymore. 

    Johnny V  
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    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #5
    scook
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    Re: Some clips are 16 bit and some 24 bit? 2017/05/24 15:19:25 (permalink)
    tdf
    Thanks, it goes like this, click to open song.cwb, which I have a few versions of in a few on and off laptop locations, unpack bundle box, uncheck the 2 boxes for store project audio in its own folder and create one file per clip. Sonar Platinum box appears "Unexpected Error Code hr:2359296261, File: HRESULT: 3221225747" . I since learned that if I leave those boxes checked, the file will open. I don't quite get how to do the per project audio folders yet as Ive used sonar versions this way for many years, and even since getting platinum, and never had a .cwb not open.

    I modified my previous posted based on the error message. It has been a while since I read the posts regarding that error. FWIW leaving the boxes checked, the bundle unpacks into a project using a per-project audio folder.
     
    IIRC, per-project audio folders were introduced around 2004. At that time there was a switch in preferences for the feature. It was enabled by default. Current versions of SONAR no longer have a preference setting to disable the feature. Having a project completely contained in a single folder is useful. Newer features such as Melodyne integration and MixScenes also benefit from the one folder per project approach. This is not to say working in the we all had to over a decade ago is wrong, just that there may be a better way. 
     
    tdf
    Second, I looked at the locations you mentioned and found that the record depth was 24 but the rendering was set at 16. So bouncing and effects were at 16, so that mystery solved. Thank you. Help says "The default value of 32 allows virtually lossless processing." So should this be 32 and not 24? Are there any issues with the effects etc that come with platinum needing 16 or 24 ?

     
    The rationale for the default is supplied in help. Internally everything in SONAR is at least 32bit.
     



    #6
    tdf
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    Re: Some clips are 16 bit and some 24 bit? 2017/05/24 20:21:13 (permalink)
    Thanks scook and cactus music, I have been experimenting with the per project way of saving files, and will change the render setting on when I start my next project. I do like having the audio for the project easy to recognize, rather than all jumbled up with other songs in the global folder, and have seen melodyne and mix scene folders popping in and didn't get where they were coming from. treesha
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