vdvorn
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Editing audio in Sonar
Well, I have just figured out that Sonar has less audio editing capacities, that say Adobe Audition. For example, there is no Audio View in it and I can not make a selected piece of audio less in volume as in Adobe (or apply the Option "Smooth Vocals", which is one of my favorites). So, it looks like that it is necessary to combine Sonar and Adobe for mixing of the song (MIDI plus audio tracks). What could be an optimal technology to do it? I am just a little bit short in time, so would be thankful for the professional to share the shortest way of actions... ;)
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Lord Tim
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 14:56:10
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Well, no, there's actually plenty of ways to do this entirely in SONAR. The first and best way is to do it non-destructively using a clip based envelope. Change the track Edit Filter from Clips to Clip Automation -> Gain and you'll see a red line appear on all of your clips in the track. Drag up or down or add points on the clip you want to adjust. Then change the Edit Filter back to Clips. Done. The second way is destructive, where you select the part of the waveform you want to affect, then go to Process -> Apply Effect -> Gain... The third way is to put a clip based effect on the clip. Split up your track so that the portion you want to affect is its own clip. Right clip that clip, choose Insert Effect -> Audio Effects -> and put in any plugin that has a gain or output control and adjust to taste. This is the best way if you want to add any compression or dynamics controls to a particular clip, like you were wanting to do. (You can also add it in the effects bin of the entire track, but I'm assuming you just want to have it work on a single clip by your post). Finally, you have track automation in general where you can basically mix the entire track. It's usually a good idea to get your balance right first with one of the previous methods, and then use track automation to basically mix the track itself, but it certainly can be used to adjust a portion of a track too. Change the track Edit Filter from Clips to Automation -> Volume and you have a line appear across the entire track. Add points around the part you want to change and drag the line up and down over that section. Change back to Clips when you're done if you like. For any of the clip or effect based things, if you want to make it permanent (which really isn't necessary in most cases and actually limits any changes you can do later), you right-click the clip and choose Bounce To Clip and it gets mixed down to a new clip. Audition is a fantastic tool, but SONAR really has most of what it can do baked in.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 15:25:41
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☼ Best Answerby vdvorn 2017/05/27 18:13:38
Wave editors are a better way to work and how we get the best of both is via "tools". You can add any Audio editor to the tools menu using the Cakewalk Tool editor.
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vdvorn
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 15:26:21
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Lord Team, thanks a lot, I will investigate your post thoroughly. May be you have also some advices - how to do mastering for my demo-songs in Sonar? Actually, I do not need the professional level - just the basics that you use yourself while recording...
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vdvorn
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 15:35:47
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Cactus Music Wave editors are a better way to work and how we get the best of both is via "tools". You can add any Audio editor to the tools menu using the Cakewalk Tool editor.
Wow! I would be great, but I did not understand how to do it. Do you mean this complex operation described below? https://www.cakewalk.com/...-SONARs-Utilities-menuAnd how does it work when I clock Adobe Audition in the Utilities menu? PS It looks like this option is not available in Sonar LE... :(
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chuckebaby
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 15:40:59
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it may require some registry modifications (if I remember correctly) but once its in the sonar menu, your application will auto open Soundfordge, adobe, exc.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Cactus Music
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 15:46:10
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Sorry I didn't give details, I had to go and look for the tool I'm talking about but this forum search function doesn't work, and even Google doesn't find it. I don't know why they make it impossible to find. Hopefully scook will chime in as I think he had something to do with writing the tool. Google does find the old way of doing it with Reg edit. But wait for someone to give you the link to the tool it's way easier. I'm going to continue my search and will post if I find it. Once you have Audition in the tools menu all you do is highlight the audio track, go to tools and double click Audition and the track will open in audition. You edit and save and when you re focus on Sonar it askes if you want to save the changes made to the audio.done.
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vdvorn
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 15:52:49
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Cactus Music Sorry I didn't give details, I had to go and look for the tool I'm talking about but this forum search function doesn't work, and even Google doesn't find it. I don't know why they make it impossible to find. Hopefully scook will chime in as I think he had something to do with writing the tool. Google does find the old way of doing it with Reg edit. But wait for someone to give you the link to the tool it's way easier. I'm going to continue my search and will post if I find it. Once you have Audition in the tools menu all you do is highlight the audio track, go to tools and double click Audition and the track will open in audition. You edit and save and when you re focus on Sonar it askes if you want to save the changes made to the audio.done.
Do you mean this link? http://forum.cakewalk.com...d-to-v23-m3237117.aspx
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Cactus Music
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 15:57:16
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Anderton
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 16:07:32
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Wave editors and multitrack recorders are different animals. Magix Sequoia probably does the best job of combining the two, although it's pricey - around $3,000. Audition is a good wave editor, but pretty incomplete when it comes to multitrack recording. However there are some surprising wave editing functions in SONAR, like being able to cut, copy, and paste individual samples. That's saved me a few times when there were clicks from digital overs. I also normalize "rogue" half-cycles prior to mastering so I can raise the overall level without having to apply dynamics. I've done articles for Sound on Sound on mastering in SONAR, you can get pretty far for basic applications. The upcoming eZine has a monthly column, "You Mix, We Master" where I master a reader-submitted song, explain what I did, and post the before and after on Cakewalk's YouTube channel.
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vdvorn
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 18:11:09
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I have installed the Sonar Tool Editor from the link above and IT WORKS even with Sonar LE! The audio files are opened in Adobe and can be easily edited there. Cactus, thanks a lot for a very helpful advice...
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vdvorn
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 18:17:49
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Anderton Wave editors and multitrack recorders are different animals. Magix Sequoia probably does the best job of combining the two, although it's pricey - around $3,000. Audition is a good wave editor, but pretty incomplete when it comes to multitrack recording. However there are some surprising wave editing functions in SONAR, like being able to cut, copy, and paste individual samples. That's saved me a few times when there were clicks from digital overs. I also normalize "rogue" half-cycles prior to mastering so I can raise the overall level without having to apply dynamics. I've done articles for Sound on Sound on mastering in SONAR, you can get pretty far for basic applications. The upcoming eZine has a monthly column, "You Mix, We Master" where I master a reader-submitted song, explain what I did, and post the before and after on Cakewalk's YouTube channel.
Anderton, thank you, I will read and see your valuable materials on mastering.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 19:25:40
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The thing is sure Sonar can do a lot , but if you are used to working with software and that software can be intigrated into Sonar then this is a better workflow situation. As I keep saying, Sonar takes way to many mouse clicks to get to the same place one mouse click will get you in say Wave Lab. Here's an exercise just for fun: Say you have 10 songs for an album and they are stereo wave files. The level of each song is different and you want to even them out. In Wave lab I open the folder containing my Album. all the songs can be quickly opened and become tabs. If you edit a song and close it, WL will ask you if you want to save,,, just like all software. Open the Normalizer and the global Analyzer and any tools you might use. Check the peak level, and normalize if required. Check the average RMS level and render to your target if required. It here you want every song the same. Continue opening each song, checking, rendering if needed and saving- note: the tools all stay open and ready to use for each song. Now do this in Sonar, that's right, each of these steps involves a lot more navigation, You have to re open the normalize tool for each track. And does anything analyze for you? If you open a track do you know if it's peaking without playing it? not only that,, you have to go through a bunch of steps to export the song. WL just saves it in 3 seconds. Done. Anyhow.. I love Sonar as a multi track sequencer and I love my WL for working with stereo files. my 2Cents. So that you scook for the tool menu editor as this give us the best of both.
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vdvorn
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 19:40:26
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Cactus Music The thing is sure Sonar can do a lot , but if you are used to working with software and that software can be intigrated into Sonar then this is a better workflow situation. As I keep saying, Sonar takes way to many mouse clicks to get to the same place one mouse click will get you in say Wave Lab.
As for me, I have a problem, because I can only learn the program, when I work upon the songs. :) Working upon the recent song learned me particularly to work with the Markers Tool. I remembered it from my experience with Cakewalk at 90th and now it was TREMENDOUSLY useful to navigate thru the song. Though Sonar for some reasons have no shortcut to move left and right in Piano Roll or Track Views, working with Marker Tool replaced it. I don not know may be the same option is in Adobe also, but I just did not use it, because I could navigate manually...
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THambrecht
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 20:49:52
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I have Adobe Audition and Steinberg Wavelab. But I do all audio editing in SONAR. We use Adobe for batch processing hundred of files and Wavelab for pan-normalizing. SONAR is much faster in audio editing as other software. We earn our daily money with daily editing audio in SONAR. SONAR has of coarse a very good audio view and you can (of course) change volumen of a selected part of a clip. (Apply-Audio-Effect -> Gain). For all other effects (smooth voice ...) I use (for example) iZotope plugins in the SONAR effect bin and apply the effect to the clip (apply audioeffect). It is not necessary to go into the editor from any other audio editor. With SONAR and a lot of exercise you can restore thousends of tapes ten times faster as with other software like Adobe or Steinberg.
We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ... 4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ... (Germany) http://www.hambrecht.de
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Cactus Music
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 21:47:31
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OK, you've said this a few times and I believe you, What I'd like to know is your exact workflow for the above situation. How do you use Sonar to quickly take 10 songs and make them all the same RMS level. You must have discovered some good short cuts that I'm unaware of. You see it can be a 2 way street. I've learned how to use Wave Lab and it's sort cuts. You've learned how to use Sonar and it's short cuts. So it's as simple as that. You prefer Sonar for wave editing because you've found away to do it fast. I prefer Wave Lab for wave editing because I've found away to do it fast. But I'm still curious as to how you can do the above exercise faster that I do it.
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THambrecht
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/27 23:26:47
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@Cactus Music Because we restore tapes from artists, broadcast and TV, the main work is to restore the sound quality (frequency response) of the songs and to elimante noise. For example a lost piano concert from 1962 or a orchestral recording from 1974. We also restore old vinyl for new CD-Production. In most case the tape is lost. Because we do 95% classic music, there is no need to make the 1. Allegro the same RMS level as the 2. Andante or the 3. Largo. Because we don't want to change the dynamic of a classical concert. That would be fatal. To measure the RMS level for other songs I use plugins from Nugen Audio in the SONAR FX bin. To make all the same RMS level I do this by hearing and measuring with this plugins. Then I do multiband dynamics, limiter, exciter ... manually by hand. And I look, that the voice, drums ... are at the same level through all songs. No matter what the RMS level says. Also we get thousend tapes from thousend clients with music from the radio or old family recordings. We only have to record and restore the sound quality. This is cutting thousends of hours from tapes and vinyl in hundred thousends of songs or text passages.
We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ... 4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ... (Germany) http://www.hambrecht.de
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Cactus Music
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/28 03:40:53
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Yes I have done a little of that type of work myself when I had the studio in a commercial space. People would pay my $50 just to take a LP and burn a CD. At first this was done directly from the turntable or Cassette deck to a Philips CD burner. Later of course CD burners started being part of a PC. That's where I first found Wave Lab. I'd record in real time, enhance and then burn to CD. I still have about 50 folders in my old back up drive with all sorts of projects like this. Everything from local Choirs to someones cassette recording of a funeral service. Keep up the good work. I know you must take pride in what you do :)
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/28 12:55:44
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vdvorn Though Sonar for some reasons have no shortcut to move left and right in Piano Roll or Track Views, working with Marker Tool replaced it.
Sonar has hotkeys for go to Previous or Next Measure ( left and right ) and they work in both Track View and Piano Roll View.
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Anderton
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Re: Editing audio in Sonar
2017/05/28 15:20:31
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I'm able to bypass the "Wavelab" stage when mastering albums by creating the premixes in SONAR, then assembling the album in Studio One Pro. Each cut in SOP has a Waves L3 Multimaximizer, and I use SOP's analytics to get a consistent DR. Then I listen to the assembled album and make any subjective tweaks. In general I find normalizing to peak or average less effective than taking the DR reading.
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