mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12010
- Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
- Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
- Status: offline
Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
I've just bought an Avantone Mixcube (the Aurotone replacement) and am wondering how you might use a single speaker in a studio setup.
I already have 3 pairs of 2 way speakers, 1 pair of 5" passive speakers, 1 pair of Adam A7X's and and a pair of JBL LSR 2328 as well as a JBL 2310 subwoofer.
I've never worked with a mono monitor so a little advice may go a long way.
Do I set it up directly in the middle (side to side) of my normal monitor position?
Does it even matter as long as I'm looking directly at it, as that would place it naturally in the middle of my listening field.
Any (relevant) tips are welcome.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
|
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
Max Output Level: -47 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2819
- Joined: 2011/02/03 04:31:35
- Location: Sound-Rehab, Austria
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/05/28 08:02:00
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby glennstanton 2017/06/01 14:30:31
I'd set it up in the middle, directly in front of your typical work/listening position and use a monitor controller so that you can switch to it with a single hardware button push.
I'm sure Jeff will jump in and give you proper guidelines as he has been (for a good reason) repeatedly recommending this single speaker setup (I personally use the avantones in a 2 speaker setup w/ mono switch as I have realized these little things can tell you so much about panning and stereo levels as well ...)
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
|
Jesse G
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4282
- Joined: 2004/04/14 01:43:43
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/01 04:11:02
(permalink)
Peace,Jesse G.  A fisher of men <>< ==============================Cakewalk and I are going places together!
Cakewalk By Bandlab, Windows 10 Pro- 64 bit, Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SLI, Intel Core i5-4460 Haswell Processor, Crucial Ballistix 32 GB Ram, PNY GeForce GTX 750, Roland Octa-Capture, Mackie Big Knob, Mackie Universal Controller (MCU), KRK V4's, KRK Rockit 6, Korg TR-61 Workstation, M-Audio Code 49 MIDI keyboard controller.[/
|
Jeff Evans
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5139
- Joined: 2009/04/13 18:20:16
- Location: Ballarat, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/05 03:33:29
(permalink)
It can be anywhere really. Mine is to the right as long as you are looking at it while checking a mix. The secret is to listen to it down at low volume too. Do not pump it up. It is important to get a L+R mix into it. I prefer to leave to leave the software alone and in stereo. A spare headphone jack (on your interface or digital mixer etc) is the ideal place to pick up the stereo output from your DAW. My speaker is passive and I use a stereo hi fi amp with a mono switch and it works great. For the active model a small passive 2 channel mixer will do the job usually as well. The headphone jack will provide plenty of signal so any signal loss due to the summing won't be a problem. Unless you have got a monitor controller of course. You could even build a simple resistive mixer inside the connector that goes into the Avantone. What it does not show very well are reverbs and bass. So it is important to switch over to your normal speakers and up louder for these checks. The small speaker can make you increase the reverb levels a little only to find things are a little wet on your larger speakers at louder volumes. So a good rule of thumb is to set reverb levels for just hearing it on your mains and you will usually be right. But for everything else the small speaker is amazing. Anything that is even slightly out on the big speakers will jump out at you on the small mono speaker. There is a way to satisfy both very well. It is also the best and only way to set vocal levels against the music too. It is so fast doing this where as you can spend hours trying to do this on larger speakers.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2017/06/05 20:18:45
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
|
Rimshot
Max Output Level: -29 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4625
- Joined: 2010/12/09 12:51:08
- Location: California
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/06 00:23:58
(permalink)
I don't have the auratone (although I sat in front of them for decades) but I have a cheap small 3" PC USB powered speakers. They sound pretty good. So I have them side by side on top of my left monitor. They are fed from the headphone out of my NanoPatch (confirming what Jeff said). I hit the USB power button on my little USB multi switch and mute the mains. I put the master out in mono mode. I get a really good small speaker sound to check mixes in. It is so easy to flip between my mains that I check them a lot. The speakers are Altec Lansing like this but w/o the woofer: https://www.amazon.com/Altec-Lansing-BXR1221-Speaker-System/dp/B0025VKUQ6
Rimshot Sonar Platinum 64 (Lifer), Studio One V3.5, Notion 6, Steinberg UR44, Zoom R24, Purrrfect Audio Pro Studio DAW (Case: Silent Mid Tower, Power Supply: 600w quiet, Haswell CPU: i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz (8 threads), RAM: 16GB DDR3/1600 , OS drive: 1TB HD, Audio drive: 1TB HD), Windows 10 x64 Anniversary, Equator D5 monitors, Faderport, FP8, Akai MPK261
|
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10037
- Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
- Location: SL,UT
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/06 15:26:18
(permalink)
one of the things i really dig about using the IKM Arc2 software,
is the ability to fold to mono at the touch of a button..
i routinely check my mixes along the way using this handy tool.
|
Jeff Evans
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5139
- Joined: 2009/04/13 18:20:16
- Location: Ballarat, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/06 22:09:05
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby glennstanton 2017/06/07 16:19:55
I have found from experience folding down a stereo mix into mono through your main speakers is nowhere near as good as feeding an L+R mix into a single mono speaker and a totally different speaker as well.
Mono means a single point source. Something that two main speakers is not doing. In fact even with two main speakers in mono you are still hearing a subtle form of stereo because the sound is arriving at both ears still slightly differently. A single point source speaker eliminates this.
Hearing your mix on a totally different speaker too which has no low end or high end much is emphasising the mids much more so. Something your main speakers also cannot do naturally. By doing this and at low volume you are hearing all sorts of other aspects to your mix which your main speakers just cannot give you. It is what I call the critical balance.
I also find that once I get a mix sounding right on the mono speaker it simply translates perfectly everywhere too. So you don't have to do all this checking on 5 other systems and in your car either either.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
|
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10037
- Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
- Location: SL,UT
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/06 22:20:48
(permalink)
it actually works pretty well, jeff.
|
Jeff Evans
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5139
- Joined: 2009/04/13 18:20:16
- Location: Ballarat, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/06 22:39:07
(permalink)
batsbrew
it actually works pretty well, jeff. I am sure it does too. At least what you are doing in mono is hearing everything panned centre and that is still good for getting everything to work well together. It will also still show you if some stuff is treading on other stuff which is good of course. It will still help to separate things as well a little better. But I guarantee if you had the single Avantone setup you will love it and in time you would agree it is better than what you are doing now. Unless you actually make the purchase and set it up properly you simply will never know.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
|
Leadfoot
Max Output Level: -47 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2817
- Joined: 2011/04/26 11:08:38
- Location: Indiana
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/06 23:29:08
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby glennstanton 2017/06/07 16:20:19
I'm happy with the results I'm getting with the mono Mixcube too. With the Audient iD22, I can switch from the regular monitors to the Mixcube at the touch of a button. It really does reveal a lot about your mix.
|
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10037
- Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
- Location: SL,UT
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/07 01:17:07
(permalink)
Jeff Evans
batsbrew
it actually works pretty well, jeff.
I am sure it does too. At least what you are doing in mono is hearing everything panned centre and that is still good for getting everything to work well together. It will also still show you if some stuff is treading on other stuff which is good of course. It will still help to separate things as well a little better.
But I guarantee if you had the single Avantone setup you will love it and in time you would agree it is better than what you are doing now. Unless you actually make the purchase and set it up properly you simply will never know.
jeff, i was doing single channel mono mixing using a yamaha ns 10 back in the late 80's, and since then, have set up multiple speaker systems to a/b with, including 'horrortones'.... i've been there, and done that. the system i have now, works just as well. no need to run out and buy something else.....
|
Jeff Evans
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5139
- Joined: 2009/04/13 18:20:16
- Location: Ballarat, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/07 02:26:50
(permalink)
Hey Bats a single NS10 would be pretty demanding! God they are horrible but good for checking mixes on I do agree. They have a poor bass response and very upper highs so in same ways NS10's do resemble a small mono speaker. By the way these new Yamaha's with the white cones e.g. HS7's do not sound like NS10's either. They are seriously full range in comparison. Although they do tend to push the mids and upper mids a little which is not a bad mix check in fact. The HS7's don't go down that far either so they are good like that too.
To Leadfoot listen to some of your previous mixes at a lowish volume on the single Auratone and hear the problems in some of your earlier mixes!
I spend quite a bit of time on the small speaker. But I do monitor on the main speakers at 85 dB SPL, 95 dB SPL and 105 dB SPL. (not for long!) It is often quite revealing what you hear up at 105 for example. If the bass is too loud then the room starts to rattle and if there is too much subby stuff in your kick it will rattle your teeth! Also the reverbs really stand out up loud too. Don't get caught setting reverb levels on the small speaker, it lies a bit in that mode.
It is interesting too that on the small speaker a snare level might just jump out a little too much. So you pull it down 1 or 2 dB and get it sitting real nice. But when you go back up on the mains the snare level does not seem to change much at all. In fact it can sound the same as before. But now you have satisfied two speakers at once.
Another thing the mono speaker is good for too is checking the level of sounds you have panned hard L or hard R. In stereo they will always be heard. But on the small speaker you might find they have disappeared a bit. Just nudge them up a db or 2 and suddenly they are there in the mono speaker but not changed much in the mains.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
|
Kev999
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3922
- Joined: 2007/05/01 14:22:54
- Location: Victoria, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/07 08:32:34
(permalink)
Jeff Evans
...Mono means a single point source. Something that two main speakers is not doing. In fact even with two main speakers in mono you are still hearing a subtle form of stereo because the sound is arriving at both ears still slightly differently. A single point source speaker eliminates this...
Leadfoot
...With the Audient iD22, I can switch from the regular monitors to the Mixcube at the touch of a button...
With the iD22 you can also toggle between stereo and single speaker mono for the main speakers by touching a single button. I find this very handy.
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
Having fun at work lately
|
Leadfoot
Max Output Level: -47 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2817
- Joined: 2011/04/26 11:08:38
- Location: Indiana
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/07 17:48:28
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby glennstanton 2017/06/08 16:53:59
Kev999
Jeff Evans
...Mono means a single point source. Something that two main speakers is not doing. In fact even with two main speakers in mono you are still hearing a subtle form of stereo because the sound is arriving at both ears still slightly differently. A single point source speaker eliminates this...
Leadfoot
...With the Audient iD22, I can switch from the regular monitors to the Mixcube at the touch of a button...
With the iD22 you can also toggle between stereo and single speaker mono for the main speakers by touching a single button. I find this very handy.
You are correct sir.:) But not the same as playing both channels through a single speaker. I was doing it that way before I got the Mixcube, and there is a difference.
|
Leadfoot
Max Output Level: -47 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2817
- Joined: 2011/04/26 11:08:38
- Location: Indiana
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/07 18:02:45
(permalink)
Jeff Evans
To Leadfoot listen to some of your previous mixes at a lowish volume on the single Auratone and hear the problems in some of your earlier mixes!
I've done some listening to my older mixes using the Mixcube, but I don't think I will anymore. It makes me want to remix everything!
|
Kev999
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3922
- Joined: 2007/05/01 14:22:54
- Location: Victoria, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/07 21:35:21
(permalink)
Leadfoot
Kev999
Jeff Evans
......
Leadfoot
......
With the iD22 you can also toggle between stereo and single speaker mono for the main speakers by touching a single button. I find this very handy.
...But not the same as playing both channels through a single speaker...
I'm monitoring both channels through the right speaker only. There's an optional setting for mono playback to go to one speaker or both.
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
Having fun at work lately
|
Leadfoot
Max Output Level: -47 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2817
- Joined: 2011/04/26 11:08:38
- Location: Indiana
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/07 23:12:54
(permalink)
Kev999
I'm monitoring both channels through the right speaker only. There's an optional setting for mono playback to go to one speaker or both.
My humble apologies, Kev. I just tried it myself, and you're absolutely correct. I guess I didn't spend any time messing with it. I used it a few times, but just assumed that when I chose L or R, I was only hearing that channel. Guess I should have RTFM. :) That being said, the Mixcube still gives me a much different perspective than my Focals. I consider it to be the most important addition to my studio in the last couple years.
|
Rimshot
Max Output Level: -29 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4625
- Joined: 2010/12/09 12:51:08
- Location: California
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/08 12:17:04
(permalink)
Rimshot Sonar Platinum 64 (Lifer), Studio One V3.5, Notion 6, Steinberg UR44, Zoom R24, Purrrfect Audio Pro Studio DAW (Case: Silent Mid Tower, Power Supply: 600w quiet, Haswell CPU: i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz (8 threads), RAM: 16GB DDR3/1600 , OS drive: 1TB HD, Audio drive: 1TB HD), Windows 10 x64 Anniversary, Equator D5 monitors, Faderport, FP8, Akai MPK261
|
mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12010
- Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
- Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
- Status: offline
Re: Mono Monitoring through an Avantone Mixcube. (An active single driver speaker)
2017/06/10 11:29:32
(permalink)
Jeff Evans
Hey Bats a single NS10 would be pretty demanding! God they are horrible but good for checking mixes on I do agree. They have a poor bass response and very upper highs so in same ways NS10's do resemble a small mono speaker. By the way these new Yamaha's with the white cones e.g. HS7's do not sound like NS10's either. They are seriously full range in comparison. Although they do tend to push the mids and upper mids a little which is not a bad mix check in fact. The HS7's don't go down that far either so they are good like that too.
To Leadfoot listen to some of your previous mixes at a lowish volume on the single Auratone and hear the problems in some of your earlier mixes!
I spend quite a bit of time on the small speaker. But I do monitor on the main speakers at 85 dB SPL, 95 dB SPL and 105 dB SPL. (not for long!) It is often quite revealing what you hear up at 105 for example. If the bass is too loud then the room starts to rattle and if there is too much subby stuff in your kick it will rattle your teeth! Also the reverbs really stand out up loud too. Don't get caught setting reverb levels on the small speaker, it lies a bit in that mode.
It is interesting too that on the small speaker a snare level might just jump out a little too much. So you pull it down 1 or 2 dB and get it sitting real nice. But when you go back up on the mains the snare level does not seem to change much at all. In fact it can sound the same as before. But now you have satisfied two speakers at once.
Another thing the mono speaker is good for too is checking the level of sounds you have panned hard L or hard R. In stereo they will always be heard. But on the small speaker you might find they have disappeared a bit. Just nudge them up a db or 2 and suddenly they are there in the mono speaker but not changed much in the mains.
Thanks Jeff for your informative comments as usual.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
|