Helpful ReplyAdaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator (solved??*)

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mixmkr
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2017/06/02 03:34:18 (permalink)

Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator (solved??*)

Had this problem with some of Boz's VST3 plugs.. Manic Compressor for one....(and used the VST2 version), but that eventually corrected itself with various updates over time.  I guess since the new Adaptive Limiter does not have a VST2 version, I'm outta luck for now.  No idea why this happens or did in the past.
Anyone else experience this?  Also in "idle"...the meters are going as well showing some kind of input....if that's what those on the right side are supposed to do.

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#1
mixmkr
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/02 03:38:03 (permalink)
ah...turning OFF MSCSS seemed to be a fix.  ;-)

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#2
mixmkr
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/02 03:50:18 (permalink)
btw, I'll be interested in hearing what others think, keeping this as transparent as possible and just cutting off some nasty peaks...very minimal brick walling...
This'd be great in the PC. (I guess use FX chain).  Have to make the FX bin "post" I guess??

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#3
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/02 10:07:32 (permalink)
mixmkr
ah...turning OFF MSCSS seemed to be a fix.  ;-)




that's interesting ... are you sure this fixed it or something else that was changed at the same time???

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#4
mixmkr
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/02 12:36:11 (permalink)
That was the fix. Back on problem returns

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#5
ptheisen
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/02 16:35:40 (permalink)
Mixmkr,
 
I think I am seeing some of the same symptoms with the Adaptive Limiter as you were. I'd like to try your solution, but what is MSCSS? Any input would be greatly appreciated!
#6
mixmkr
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/02 16:38:35 (permalink)
MMCSS
Go to preferences>settings>audio... and uncheck box if checked.  The option is fairly new I believe, geared for laptops or whatever...since I don't really know what I'm talking about!

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#7
ptheisen
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/02 16:45:29 (permalink)
Thanks, Mixmkr, I'll give it a try and let you know what happens!
#8
ptheisen
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/02 17:34:31 (permalink)
Well, unchecking MMCSS did not make any difference for me.
 
In one project, adding the adaptive limiter to the master buss gives the "ring modulator" type of effect when the project is playing, and the meters on the right hand side are active even when the project isn't playing.
 
In a couple other projects, adding the adaptive limiter to the master buss results in a constant approximately 700hz tone that registers +9db on the master buss meters as soon as playback is started. The audio of the project itself does not play, only the 700hz tone, and it does not stop when playback is stopped. The only way to stop it is to bypass the plugin. I'm glad I wasn't using my monitors or wearing my headphones when testing this, or something might have blown!
 
I tried the other Platinum supplied limiters and IK Tracks Brickwall Limiter, all of them work as expected when added to the project. I'm at a loss as to what is happening.
 
I'm using the latest version of Platinum, Windows 10, an I7 4770k processor and a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 interface.
#9
mixmkr
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/02 19:50:09 (permalink)
bummer  This has only happened with VST3 fx for me.   If there was a VST2 version, it always worked and was my workaround, mentioned above.  I'll try some more experimenting too. 

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#10
ptheisen
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/03 00:05:35 (permalink)
I did some sleuthing on my side.
 
I rolled back the Engineering Suite update, forced a re-download and reinstalled it, that made no difference.
 
I rolled back the Sonar update, forced a re-download and reinstalled it, that made no difference.
 
So, I went into preferences/audio/driver settings and unchecked the 64-bit Double Precision Engine (DPE), because that had been a culprit in a number of issues in past months for some people. I hit Play, and then the Adaptive Limiter seemed to work the way it is supposed to. Surprisingly, though, re-checking the DPE did not break it!
 
Further testing revealed this: if the DPE is checked when an existing project that already contains the Adaptive Limiter is opened, or the Adaptive Limiter is added to a project when the DPE is checked, hitting Play will cause the ring modulator and/or extremely loud tone symptoms, and they will not stop until the limiter is bypassed, even though play is stopped. If you subsequently uncheck the DPE and play a few seconds, then recheck the DPE, the symptoms will not occur. Also, if the DPE is not checked when the existing project is opened or when the Adaptive Limiter is added, the symptoms will not occur.
 
This may be a bug that can be fixed.
 
In the meantime, I'll probably just leave the DPE unchecked in general.
#11
bitflipper
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/03 00:18:31 (permalink)
That's some good sleuthing, ptheisen. If the workaround is that simple, just leave the 64-bit engine off. Shouldn't be a problem, unless you start noticing some noise down around -384 dB.


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#12
mixmkr
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/03 00:43:22 (permalink)
That works for me as well by unchecking DPE, and I also found that I could re-check it again and all ok.  It SEEMS to be the first instance of unchecking solves it.  I could then add more instances and it would be ok...even if re-checked again.
 
Going back to MMCSS, it didn't always work unchecking in different sessions. 
 
One last item, and I'll dbl check this too.  I'm putting this on my master buss FX bin, as it's easiest to hear right off the bat.  I'll try single tracks and see what gives. 
 
At any rate, checking and unchecking stuff...seems to be "somewhat" of a cure. 
This was similar behavior to my Boz VST3 plugs too.  But a Sonar update (or one of Boz's updates??) seemed to cure that as it doesn't happen anymore with his stuff.

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#13
mixmkr
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/03 00:52:23 (permalink)
busses, tracks...it doesn't matter. 
The DPE seems to be more the ticket now too...unchecking it.  I find I can then re-check it AFTER the limiter is already loaded.  But if I add another instance of the limiter, it happens again....so it isn't reliable just unchecking (and rechecking) once.  Uncheck the DPE and all is ok ...and then I can re-check it again each time I add an instance of the limiter.  (or just leave it off)
 
BTW...the meters are going without scrolling thru the timeline....like there is a crazy noise floor happening.  Turn the limiter off...the sound still remains when playing (like a ring modulator), but the meters are just frozen about 2/3rds the way up.

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#14
ampfixer
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/03 00:58:11 (permalink)
I've had the 64 bit DPE shut off since X1. Some systems just don't like it, no idea why.

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#15
mixmkr
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/06/03 03:06:57 (permalink)
All this said, I'm really liking the limiter.  Seems several steps up from the concrete and another league from Boost 11.  This one looks like a definite winner.

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#16
Lance Riley [Cakewalk]
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/07/11 15:11:01 (permalink)
Hey Folks,
 
We are trying to come up with a way to reproduce this issue in house so that we can resolve it in an update to the Adaptive Limiter. So far we haven't had any luck recreating the issue on any machines at Cakewalk. I'm wondering if we can get some additional info...
 
What sample rates you are using when this happens?
 
What type of manufacturer of CPUs you are running? AMD? or Intel?
 
What type of processor is it? Quad? Duo? i5? i7? Something else?
 
What OS are you using? Win 8? 8.1? 10?
 
 

Lance Riley
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#17
ptheisen
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/07/11 22:23:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Lance Riley [Cakewalk] 2017/07/12 17:44:24
Lance,
 
I was one of the ones that reported experiencing the Adaptive Limiter/DPE issue and described the circumstances I was aware of at the time to make it happen for me in post 11. When I saw your post, I tried reproducing it again today and initially I could not. Then I stumbled onto an additional factor that was required to make it happen, at least in my case. The latency on my audio interface had to be set at 64 samples in order to experience the problem. Any other setting, higher or lower, worked fine.
 
I have a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 running at 44.1khz; Intel i7 4770k; Windows 10 with the Creator update, although the initial occurance was prior to my DAW receiving the Creator update.
 
Hope this helps. Let me know if you need any other info, I'm happy to provide.
#18
mixmkr
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/07/12 01:08:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Lance Riley [Cakewalk] 2017/07/12 17:44:29
My stats in my sig with win 10. 64 samples with Steinberg UR44 interface

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#19
Lance Riley [Cakewalk]
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/07/12 13:35:04 (permalink)
Thanks for the additional info guys. If anyone else experiencing this issue could also provide similar info on OS & CPU that would be great. We'd also like to know if others are also running at 64 samples on their audio interface.

Lance Riley
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#20
fireberd
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/07/12 15:34:12 (permalink)
My system is in my spec's.  I had to turn off the 64 bit as noted.
It happened in the Win 10 Creator's Upgrade edition and on the Windows 10 Insider versions.
 

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#21
Lance Riley [Cakewalk]
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/07/12 17:44:08 (permalink)
Just wanted to let you folks know that we have isolated the issue and it is in fact related to ASIO 64 sample buffer sizes. Using anything else is currently the only workaround. This should be addressed in the next SONAR update. Thanks again for the helpful information.
 

Lance Riley
Product Manager
#22
ptheisen
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/07/12 17:59:34 (permalink)
Great work to you and the Cakewalk team, Lance, glad we could help! Looking forward to the next update.
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mixmkr
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Re: Adaptive limiter sounds like ring modulator 2017/07/13 00:03:07 (permalink)
Yowza! Quick work!

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