Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen?

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cparmerlee
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2017/06/10 16:22:54 (permalink)

Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen?

I have been under the impression that pens were used either with separate pads (e.g. WACOM) or with a purpose-designed pad computer like Microsoft Surface.  I have a Surface 3 and pen, and use it for some apps, but this is not a comfortable environment for using SONAR for me.  I want lots of glass when I am using a DAW.  I have two very large monitors, plus a smaller monitor where I stash things I want in view but don't refer to very much.
 
I saw this quote in the eZine https://app.box.com/v/tech-plus-music
"Wacom pens work with earlier computers, various touchscreens, and so on"
I have done a bunch of searches looking for examples of people using pens with touch screens on a regular PC, not a pad computer. I haven't found anything.  Can anybody shed any light on this?  Is it possible to use a pen with SONAR on a regular desktop that has multiple monitors?

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    John
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/10 16:50:53 (permalink)
    Yes a pen will work. 

    Best
    John
    #2
    cparmerlee
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 00:25:00 (permalink)
    John
    Yes a pen will work. 



    I don't suppose you would want to be a little more informative?  What kind of pen?  Can one pen work if your system has two big multi-touch monitors?

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    #3
    tlw
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 03:20:41 (permalink)
    Any simple stylus capable of working on a touch screen or tablet should work, though you'd obviously not be able to do multi-touch with one.

    Wacom's pens work with their graphics tablets which range from basic inexpensive ones to the cintiq range which are a kind of monitor themselves. They don't just work like a plain stylus, but take account of pressure applied to them, some sense if they are tilted and used like shading with a pencil. Wacom tablets have been around for many years. Their main use is in photographic editing and art work, but they can be useful in any application if you need something that has much greater accuracy than a finger.

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    #4
    cparmerlee
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 04:28:50 (permalink)
    tlw
    Any simple stylus capable of working on a touch screen or tablet should work, though you'd obviously not be able to do multi-touch with one.

    I have a Wacom tablet and pen, and a Surface 3 with the second generation Microsoft pen.  I tried both pens on my Dell Multi-touch screen and neither did anything.  I didn't do any software installation.  I just physically touched the pen to the screen and there was no effect.  The screen does work with the finger, of course.

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    #5
    w.joyce
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 07:22:37 (permalink)
    I have this problem too. I have a hanns g 23 inch touch srceen monitor and normal tablet pen which works for normal tasks but not for adding notes or writing automation.
    I wish they had made it work for all pens and normal touch there can't be that much difference between normal touch and a stylus.
    #6
    John
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 14:32:59 (permalink)
    I too have a multi touch tablet and I found this to work  with All capacitive touch screens devices. The Smalleye -island works with my tablet.
     
     
     
    I also have a Lenovo X220 laptop/tablet that uses a Watcom stylus and win 10 drivers for it under Windows 10. 
     
    You need to know what kind if touch screen you have and then you can find a stylus for it.
     

    Best
    John
    #7
    cparmerlee
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 17:54:45 (permalink)
    John
    You need to know what kind if touch screen you have and then you can find a stylus for it.



    It is a Dell P2714T with 10-point multi-touch and "Projected capacitive system"
    http://euro.dell.com/uk/en/corp/Peripherals/dell-p2714t/pd.aspx?refid=dell-p2714t&s=corp
     
    How does one match a stylus to the monitor?

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    #8
    John
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 17:58:27 (permalink)
    cparmerlee
    John
    You need to know what kind if touch screen you have and then you can find a stylus for it.



    It is a Dell P2714T with 10-point multi-touch and "Projected capacitive system"
    http://euro.dell.com/uk/en/corp/Peripherals/dell-p2714t/pd.aspx?refid=dell-p2714t&s=corp
     
    How does one match a stylus to the monitor?


    The one I posted above should work.

    Best
    John
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    w.joyce
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 18:30:49 (permalink)
    Hi john I can't see a button on that stylus for selecting notes or other mouse features?
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    John
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 19:34:13 (permalink)
    w.joyce
    Hi john I can't see a button on that stylus for selecting notes or other mouse features?

    My understanding is with a button you will need a much more expensive pen. One from Microsoft for example.  You may also need a battery in some with a button. The stylus I have with X220 came with it and it has a button. However it wont work with out the screen driver from Watcom and that wont work on just any touch screen.
     
    You will need to do some research on just what are the requirements for your setup.   

    Best
    John
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    w.joyce
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 20:00:21 (permalink)
    Thanks for the reply. Like I said I have a normal pen that works for everything except adding notes or drawing automation or moving clips.
    But that's why I have wrote on here I know not everyone uses touchscreen monitors yet but they are alot more inexpensive than having to spend thousands on a surface.
    So why only make it work for certain hardware? I belive it should work for any touch device.
    #12
    w.joyce
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 20:10:56 (permalink)
    I really hope they take these things into account with newer updates this year. It would make navigating and using sonar much more intuitive for everyone.
    I'm not trying to complain.
    I love this software I just get frustrated when I'm sat there for a while using my vsts recording stuff in then have to stop to pick up my keboard to move a clip or edit a note in the prv. I could have much worse problems lol.
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    Brando
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 21:18:38 (permalink)
    w.joyce
    Thanks for the reply. Like I said I have a normal pen that works for everything except adding notes or drawing automation or moving clips.
    But that's why I have wrote on here I know not everyone uses touchscreen monitors yet but they are alot more inexpensive than having to spend thousands on a surface.
    So why only make it work for certain hardware? I belive it should work for any touch device.

    I have voiced my displeasure concerning Cakewalk's implementation of touch previously. 
    I agree with you though - doesn't it seem ridiculous that a user can enter notes at an acceptable resolution with a mouse, but can't do the same with a simple capacitative stylus on a multi-touch screen monitor? If I zoom in enough, why can't I enter notes with my finger? My touchscreen monitor was essentially a waste of money, and is used as a simple display now. Until Cakewalk sorts this out I'll wait and see what they come up with before going down another hardware dead end, but I have scary visions of some abomination involving touch, pen, mouse and keyboard shortcuts... The octopuses will love it I'm sure.
    Really not as bitter as this sounds - it might not sound like it but I love Sonar Platinum and have lifetime updates. (But I hope there's a vote before they start working on their new LFO....)
     

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    w.joyce
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 21:35:02 (permalink)
    Thanks brando. I'm sure there is others with the same problem too. It's a shame they stopped working on normal touch features when they first announced it i was well happy and and thought they would be going in more of touch direction. But it seems they fallen behind other daw's like fl studio in this area. My friend uses it and he can pretty much do everything with touch. But I can't get on with the program it's awful to use when you have got used to using a traditional daw.
    #15
    cparmerlee
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/11 23:44:04 (permalink)
    John
    The one I posted above should work.

    I have ordered a couple (I will lose one of them for sure.)  They certainly are cheap enough.  What is with that disc on the end?  Is that just to protect the screen?
     
    I have 2 27" monitors (plus a small monitor) on the machine where I run Sonar. The monitor my right is multi-touch and the other is just a monitor.  I tend to put the main stuff on the non-touch screen with the mixer window on the touch monitor.  Without a pen, that's probably backward from what a person would want because the fingers are mainly useful just for scrolling the transport.  I am hoping Cake adds a lot more pen/touch support.  I am planning to replace that non-touch monitor whenever there is better support for touch/pens.
     
    Off topic a little, I watched that video with Noel and the Microsoft guy.  I know there has been a lot of disappointment with the decision to not bring a Mac product to market, but one really has to be impressed with Microsoft's commitment to making Windows 10 a very good platform for DAWs.  It seems this rather flips the script for Apple.  Forever, Apple was known as the niche product that was great for artistic things (drawing and music) while Microsoft was the platform for business and boring old reliability.  With these advancements in latency and user interface, it seems that Windows is becoming the "serious" platform.  I do hope that both Microsoft and Cakewalk come to realize that a Surface Pro just isn't the platform for big DAW projects.  We need the bigger systems to have the UI of the Surface while providing much greater glass.

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    John
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/12 00:08:57 (permalink)
    My main system uses two monitors neither is a touch screen so I don't use touch on it. Where I do use touch is with other things such as Kindle for example on my tablet and laptop. Both my touch screen computers are good for using touch but not for Sonar and touch. A Surface Studio might be the ideal setup for Sonar and touch plus pen.  
     
    As to your comment about Windows and Microsoft, I agree with you. 
     
     

    Best
    John
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    mudgel
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/13 11:04:22 (permalink)
    The latest pens work with Bluetooth but still need a capacitive touch screen to work on.

    It's a big subject I too am looking into. I suggest you do a lot more research. That's what I'm doing.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    #18
    cparmerlee
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    Re: Can one use a pen with a desktop and multi-touch screen? 2017/06/14 20:29:41 (permalink)
    John
    I too have a multi touch tablet and I found this to work  with All capacitive touch screens devices. The Smalleye -island works with my tablet.
     
     

    I received the SmallEye stylus today and it does work with that Dell touch monitor.  It works very well for anything on a push-button nature (mute button, e.g.).  Things that involving or a more delicate touch don't work so well.  For example, I have the Aria player on screen.  If I use the stylus to touch the simulated keyboard, the keys always show the touch, but I can only get them to sound about 1 time out of 20.  I don't do much better with my finger.  If I slide my finger or stylus along the simulated keyboard, all the notes play a gliss.  If I click with the mouse, I get sound 100% of the time.  I wonder if there is another Windows API the developer has to implement in order to make the touch as reliable as mouse clicks.
    Likewise I put the Ozone equalizer on the screen.  It was possible to use the stylus to drag the parametric nodes, but it was really tedious -- not nearly as easy as with a mouse.  The pen comes with 3 tips, so I may try the other two to see if they make a difference in the above cases.
     
    And of course, none of this registers pressure.
     
    I have continued to search.  It seems there are supposedly some Bluetooth pens out there that work like the SmallEye stylus (passively) to register location on the monitor, but also send Bluetooth commands to register pressure detected at the pen.  Every one I have seen refers to Apple pads and books.  I haven't seen any product of this type that explicitly has Windows support.  Has anybody else found such a pen yet?  I guess there is very limited need for such a device in SONAR today -- only in the PRV where the pressure can set the controller levels.

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