Bhav
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Beagle
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 12:28:10
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☄ Helpfulby Wibbles 2017/06/14 13:00:31
I think you're missing the point. The "not exactly great news" is that people have lost their lives and others are in the hospital as well as firefighters and first responders are in harms way trying to help people.
My thoughts and prayers for those involved. tragic indeed.
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Wibbles
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 13:05:19
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Bhav
Not exactly great news for me currently considering I might have to move into a flat if I dont get offered a house.
I'm sure you have the deepest, heartfelt sympathies of everyone here.
I'm off to see the Wibble, the wonderful Wibble of Wobble
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sharke
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 13:15:31
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You're actually much more likely to die in a house fire than a high rise fire. Most high rises are fireproof, meaning the fire cannot spread from one floor to another and is usually contained in the unit in which it started. At least that is the case here in NYC. Of course, all bets are off if the developers are stupid enough to cover the building in flammable cladding, which enables the fire to spread from floor to floor via the outside of the building. Looks like that was the case in London this morning.
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Bhav
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 13:40:57
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They actually had an action group predicting that this would happen too: https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/ Also fire safety checks that were previously scheduled to take place to assess the tower were postponed. Yes the loss of life is terrible, but so much catastrophe could have been avoidable if they had taken the resident's complaints seriously, or even better yet if such a building with only a single fire escape had not been permitted to be built in the first place.
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Bhav
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 13:42:16
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Beagle
I think you're missing the point. The "not exactly great news" is that people have lost their lives and others are in the hospital as well as firefighters and first responders are in harms way trying to help people.
My thoughts and prayers for those involved. tragic indeed.
Right, but I believe I summed that up already with the word tragedy.
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Bhav
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 14:32:36
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sharke
You're actually much more likely to die in a house fire than a high rise fire. Most high rises are fireproof, meaning the fire cannot spread from one floor to another and is usually contained in the unit in which it started. At least that is the case here in NYC. Of course, all bets are off if the developers are stupid enough to cover the building in flammable cladding, which enables the fire to spread from floor to floor via the outside of the building. Looks like that was the case in London this morning.
It depends on how they build the flats, the outlook for social housing flats in the UK is not good: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/aug/23/social-housing-timber-frame-fire-risk And the guvment doesnt care to do anything until such a tragedy happens, I wonder if there will be stricter fire safety regulations put in place for new flats, but even still a lot of current flats are still at high risk. Also in case of house fires, all you have to do at the most is throw a mattress and any other fabrics out of a window and jump on. You might still get some damage, but thats going to be more fixable than if you end up stuck at the top of a block of flats.
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sharke
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 14:41:47
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Bhav
sharke
You're actually much more likely to die in a house fire than a high rise fire. Most high rises are fireproof, meaning the fire cannot spread from one floor to another and is usually contained in the unit in which it started. At least that is the case here in NYC. Of course, all bets are off if the developers are stupid enough to cover the building in flammable cladding, which enables the fire to spread from floor to floor via the outside of the building. Looks like that was the case in London this morning.
It depends on how they build the flats, the outlook for social housing flats in the UK is not good:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/aug/23/social-housing-timber-frame-fire-risk
And the guvment doesnt care to do anything until such a tragedy happens, I wonder if there will be stricter fire safety regulations put in place for new flats, but even still a lot of current flats are still at high risk.
Also in case of house fires, all you have to do at the most is throw a mattress and any other fabrics out of a window and jump on. You might still get some damage, but thats going to be more fixable than if you end up stuck at the top of a block of flats.
As your link says, these timber frames are being used in buildings of no more than 6 or 7 stories. That's not a high rise.
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DrLumen
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 15:08:23
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I saw this on the news this morning. Such a tragedy.
I'm guessing the building didn't have fire sprinklers either?
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jamesg1213
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 15:37:02
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☄ Helpfulby Ham N Egz 2017/06/14 17:03:50
DrLumen
I saw this on the news this morning. Such a tragedy.
I'm guessing the building didn't have fire sprinklers either?
It wouldn't have made any difference if it did, the fire engulfed the entire 24 floors in about 30 minutes. They're reporting 6 dead, but given the time it happened (1am), and the speed with which the fire spread, the toll is likely to be much higher. So distressing. Wibbles
Bhav
Not exactly great news for me currently considering I might have to move into a flat if I dont get offered a house.
I'm sure you have the deepest, heartfelt sympathies of everyone here.
Honestly Bhav, how you can make something as appalling as this like this 'about you', is absolutely beyond me.
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ampfixer
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 16:51:34
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Bhav
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/what-happened-at-grenfell-tower-london-fire-visual-guide
In case anyone missed it, yet another tragedy in the UK, a residential tower built in 1970 with only a single fire escape.
Not exactly great news for me currently considering I might have to move into a flat if I dont get offered a house.
Offered a house? What is it, Christmas in England? I live in a high rise and shelter in place is my only plan. I'm 300 ft up and the stairwells can be chimneys if some idiot leaves a fire door open. We had a small fire a few years back. Some moron was trying to grow weed in a spare room and the light broke and started a fire. It was 15 floors below me but the smoke made its way in no time. The smoke is a stinking toxic mess. Carpet, paint, plastic and assorted materials. Just a little bit of that smoke and you are a wreck. Everyone should have a fire safety plan. If not for you, then for your pets and loved ones.
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Ham N Egz
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 17:05:20
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jamesg1213
[
Honestly Bhav, how you can make something as appalling as this like this 'about you', is absolutely beyond me. If you look at his post history you can answer that question quite easily...
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jamesg1213
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 17:25:50
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sharke
You're actually much more likely to die in a house fire than a high rise fire. Most high rises are fireproof, meaning the fire cannot spread from one floor to another and is usually contained in the unit in which it started. At least that is the case here in NYC. Of course, all bets are off if the developers are stupid enough to cover the building in flammable cladding, which enables the fire to spread from floor to floor via the outside of the building. Looks like that was the case in London this morning.
That does indeed appear to be the case. If the fire spread up the outside of the building, water jets will reach maybe 2/3 of the way up a building that height, and the firefighters wouldn't be able to tackle it from the inside because the windows would be sealed. The company that carried out the refurbishment of the building last year have been quick to announce that they 'met all required regulations'.
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Bhav
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 17:42:12
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Ham N Egz
jamesg1213
[
Honestly Bhav, how you can make something as appalling as this like this 'about you', is absolutely beyond me.
If you look at his post history you can answer that question quite easily... Actually most people's first response to such events is going to be 'what if it was / glad it wasnt me, not about how many people died. A lot of people are also going to be thinking of the cause of the fire and why it spread so much, which was largely due the fact that the flats had very little fire resistance or safety.
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sharke
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 18:10:53
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ampfixer
I live in a high rise and shelter in place is my only plan. I'm 300 ft up and the stairwells can be chimneys if some idiot leaves a fire door open. We had a small fire a few years back. Some moron was trying to grow weed in a spare room and the light broke and started a fire. It was 15 floors below me but the smoke made its way in no time. The smoke is a stinking toxic mess. Carpet, paint, plastic and assorted materials. Just a little bit of that smoke and you are a wreck.
Everyone should have a fire safety plan. If not for you, then for your pets and loved ones.
Yep as long as the building is fireproof (i.e. constructed correctly) then staying put is absolutely the best plan. Unless something else happened like a plane hit the building of course, in which case it's not a normal fire situation and things might become structurally compromised - in that case I'd be looking for an escape route. A couple of years ago here in Manhattan there was a raging inferno in an apartment in a high rise on 43rd street. It did not leave the confines of the unit, but one guy died when he decided to ignore advice and leg it down the stairs. The smoke got him.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 18:22:07
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When I was living in Dubai there were a couple of tower fires where the external cladding burnt and spread the flames up the tower.
It could never happen in Europe / USA etc. They have rules and standards was the oft repeated refrain.
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tlw
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 18:33:44
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☄ Helpfulby Beagle 2017/06/14 18:46:29
Bhav
Actually most people's first response to such events is going to be 'what if it was / glad it wasnt me, not about how many people died. Actually it probably isn't. Our first thoughts were shock, then what a horrible way to die, then wonder what provisions are being made for hundreds of people (at best) rendered homeless and possessionless overnight. Hopefully there'll be no more deaths, but this fire could yet be a disaster on the scale of Aberfan or the Herald of Free Enterprise. And like those it might have been possible to avoid. As to what started the fire or why it spread so quickly, working that out is a job for the experts. What does seem clear is that something was very wrong with that block and the way it's been managed for quite a long time. Once upon a time I worked for a local authority's housing dept. for a while and our worst collective nightmare was a big fire or explosion in a tower block, resulting e.g. from gas cylinders left lying about by contractors. Memories of Ronan Point were still strong in the early 90s. Once in a while a single flat might get damaged by e.g. a cooker fire, but nothing on this dreadful scale.
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Bhav
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 22:16:55
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☄ Helpfulby eph221 2017/06/15 00:40:50
Well ok then, my brain is simply more dysfunctional than I thought.
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Bhav
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/14 22:20:46
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ampfixer
Bhav
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/what-happened-at-grenfell-tower-london-fire-visual-guide
In case anyone missed it, yet another tragedy in the UK, a residential tower built in 1970 with only a single fire escape.
Not exactly great news for me currently considering I might have to move into a flat if I dont get offered a house.
Offered a house? What is it, Christmas in England?
I live in a high rise and shelter in place is my only plan. I'm 300 ft up and the stairwells can be chimneys if some idiot leaves a fire door open. We had a small fire a few years back. Some moron was trying to grow weed in a spare room and the light broke and started a fire. It was 15 floors below me but the smoke made its way in no time. The smoke is a stinking toxic mess. Carpet, paint, plastic and assorted materials. Just a little bit of that smoke and you are a wreck.
Everyone should have a fire safety plan. If not for you, then for your pets and loved ones.
If you dont know how social housing works, theres a waiting list, priority based on need, and long application processes. Its not merely about finance. Theres simply a vast shortage of social funded housing available. They have a large list of applicants per property, out of which only one gets 'offered' the property. Or I could very easily just buy an old build in poor condition, but Im trying to look for the best I can afford first through social housing schemes. Or if I had reproduced, I would have been given a house almost instantly.
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Karyn
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Re: Grenfell tower fire
2017/06/15 00:28:43
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My deepest sympathy to all those affected by the terrible fire in London.
This is not the place to discuss the lack of social housing...
-end-
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