Helpful ReplyDrum Controller

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Markubl2
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2017/06/21 14:33:39 (permalink)

Drum Controller

Does anyone use anything other than a keyboard to control drums (Addictive Drums, NI Battery, UVI Beatbox, etc)?   If so, what do you use?
#1
DeeringAmps
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/22 11:36:41 (permalink)
The KAT controller is very affordable & the Roland HPD-20 is very versatile.
I prefer both to using the keyboard.

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#2
DeeringAmps
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/22 11:36:41 (permalink)
The KAT controller is very affordable & the Roland HPD-20 is very versatile.
I prefer both to using the keyboard.

Tom Deering
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#3
Sanderxpander
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/22 13:49:29 (permalink)
Sometimes I use Maschine. But often, a combination of keyboard and programming gets me there quickest.
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Markubl2
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/22 18:21:29 (permalink)
Yeah, I had been looking at the small Maschine Mikro. I just have a devil of a time with a keyboard.
#5
Jesse G
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/22 19:54:11 (permalink)
I used to use the M-Audio Trigger Finger and I enjoyed using that midi Drum Pad Controller a great deal. 
When I received a Windows update for Windows 10, My M-Audio Trigger Finger and my M-Audio Radium 49 stopped working, they both became door stops for Windows 10 use.
 
I now use the M-Audio CODE 49 which has the drum pad and the 49 Semi- weighted Keys.

Peace,
Jesse G. A fisher of men  <><
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#6
Markubl2
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/22 20:02:36 (permalink)
Thank you for the replies. 
 
Jesse, how do you go about "mapping" the pads to certain sounds.  For example, Addictive Drums.  I have always just played the keys on my keyboard until I found what is triggering the certain sound.  I assume you "map" the pads to certain sounds somehow?
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TheMaartian
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/22 20:32:50 (permalink)
husker
Thank you for the replies. 
 
Jesse, how do you go about "mapping" the pads to certain sounds.  For example, Addictive Drums.  I have always just played the keys on my keyboard until I found what is triggering the certain sound.  I assume you "map" the pads to certain sounds somehow?


In the AD2 GUI, click on the '?' in the upper right corner. Then click on 'Addictive Drums 2 Keymap'. That will open a PDF that will show you every key mapping in AD.

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#8
Markubl2
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/22 20:40:42 (permalink)
Understood.  Are they then modified in AD, or on the controller?
#9
Jesse G
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/22 20:43:53 (permalink)
Addictive Drums has an a section in it for mapping which is real easy to use. 
 
I click the question mark in the upper right hand corner of AD2
I select Map Window drop down box  on upper the left side
I click Empty under Map Preset  Drop down box. 
I click on a Kit piece in the Window and then select "learn" for the particular type of sound from that piece
I then click Learn for the kit piece and I then click the Pad on my Controller I want to assign for the kit piece and you will hear the Kit piece.
 
Continue for all Drum pieces you want assigned for the Drum Kit.
When done click SAVE under the Map Preset Drop Down box and give it a name. 
 
You are done. 
 
There is more in depth information but that's the basics for setting up a drum pad for AD2.
 
Groove3.com has a pretty good video Tutorial for using AD2 and Mapping to keys and pads.
 
See this AD2 Mapping video as well on Youtube.com

Peace,
Jesse G. A fisher of men  <><
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#10
TheMaartian
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/22 21:01:16 (permalink)
Jesse G
Addictive Drums has an a section in it for mapping which is real easy to use. 
 
I click the question mark in the upper right hand corner of AD2
I select Map Window drop down box  on upper the left side
I click Empty under Map Preset  Drop down box. 
I click on a Kit piece in the Window and then select "learn" for the particular type of sound from that piece
I then click Learn for the kit piece and I then click the Pad on my Controller I want to assign for the kit piece and you will hear the Kit piece.
 
Continue for all Drum pieces you want assigned for the Drum Kit.
When done click SAVE under the Map Preset Drop Down box and give it a name. 
 
You are done. 
 
There is more in depth information but that's the basics for setting up a drum pad for AD2.
 
Groove3.com has a pretty good video Tutorial for using AD2 and Mapping to keys and pads.
 
See this AD2 Mapping video as well on Youtube.com


Good stuff, Jesse!
 
Here's the link to the Groove 3 course that contains the AD2 keymapping videos.
 
https://www.groove3.com/X...Drums-2-Advanced-Vol-2

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#11
Markubl2
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/23 02:21:04 (permalink)
Yes, great info.  Thank you!
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Jesse G
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/23 17:43:18 (permalink)
Husker,
 
Let us know how well the provided information worked for you.
============================
 
The Maartian
 
  I never realized that the AD2 Mapping video was one of the sample videos on the Groove3 site.  I purchased the videos after AD2 was offered in Sonar by Cakewalk.   

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#13
Markubl2
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/23 20:59:26 (permalink)
Will do, just need to figure out what to do about a controller.   
#14
Jesse G
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/24 00:05:27 (permalink)
husker
Will do, just need to figure out what to do about a controller.   




What???
 
The FA08 has 16 pads, why not use those pads and map them to AD2.  That is what i did with the M-Audio Code.
 
Once I lost the use of my Trigger Finger, I regained some real estate on my desk, while still have the pads on my  CODE to trigger AD2. 

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#15
Markubl2
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/24 00:36:41 (permalink)
The Pads on the FA08 aren't really useful as a drum controller.  They are designed for other things (sampling, selecting parts, etc.)  They don't really send the midi data.
 
I have a question in on the Roland forum now, but it isn't looking promising to use those pads.
#16
Cactus Music
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/24 14:52:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby glennstanton 2017/07/08 16:12:39
Are you willing to try a drum kit? 
I bought a Yamaha DXR 450 for $500 and it solved my aged old issue with having to play drum parts in 3 or 4 passes on a keyboard. Now I can do it all in one pass. I'm not a very good drummer but it gets things pretty close to what I wanted and then good old PRV editing finishes it off. It's made for better drum tracks overall and faster.
And a another added bonus-  Like any instrument the more you play/ practice the better you get. my drumming improved to the point where I'm not intimidated to sit behind a kit at a jam session now. 

Johnny V  
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#17
Markubl2
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/24 15:46:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mudgel 2017/07/11 12:33:32
Hmmm.  I'll take a look at that.  Not sure I would have the room (or would want to put up with what the wife would think!).  I'l do some measurements - thanks for the suggestion.
 
I had been looking at the NI Maschine, as my plans for my summer bonus was to get Komplete.  Getting a Maschine saves me a couple hundred overall in getting into NI. 
#18
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/24 16:25:47 (permalink)
Using an drum kit will be the best solution but the most expensive ... i' m not sure how happy you will be with something that costs 500$. Mine cost a lot more and uses a fast Roland brain to convert the hits from the pads to MIDI notes ... plus you need a super fast interface like the MOTU AVB to get timing really tight ... otherwise the latency will render most of what you play unusable

... and the edrum kit needs a lot of space ...

A good working solution may be a proper drum pad /drum synth with MIDI out like e.g. the Nord Drum 2 which I got mounted right next to the keyboards. Does not need much space. Has superb triggering. Works with a kick pad ... this can in combination with AD2 work like real cool groove machine

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#19
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/26 01:34:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby glennstanton 2017/07/08 16:13:39
There's no difference in latency I would think in any of the major brands, and the driver is probably the same through out the line up from top to bottom. It's a MIDI /USB driver anyhow, not an audio driver.  Yamaha has Stienberg  drivers for there audio stuff so possibly the drums use a Stienberg midi driver.  
The timing is dead on as far as I can tell. I can leave my snare tracks alone because they are either right on the mark or just a hair ahead of the beat which is the whole point. That's why the tracks sound better. Your using a stick, not a finger. and the notes get put where I wanted them to go more or less. 
You will hear latency , of course, if you monitor your playing via a VST drum set. So I use the brain  sounds while tracking so there is zero latency in my headphones. Even at my lowest buffer settings which gives me something like 10 ms RTL I can hear the echo and it throws me off. 
 
Of course the better kits are more satisfying to play especially live. You get better playing surfaces and more zones.  But the low end kits are a big step up from using your fingers, and that was all I was looking for just, like the OP.  
An Octapad or something big enough to hit with a stick would do the same thing. The brain sound quality is not worth worrying about as you will be using a VST once the midi is captured. Mine actually sound pretty good for goofing around when we have a jam session or a porch party. I stick a real snare and Hi Hat in there. I use a patch where the kit snare becomes a cowbell!! We always need more cowbell after all! 
 
FYI The Yamaha kit takes up 36" x 16" of floor space. I have it on my right side and all I do is swivel my chair. It sort of gets in my way when playing guitar but it weighs nothing so I just push it back a bit. 

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#20
Zargg
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/06/26 19:40:37 (permalink)
Hi. I have an Alesis DM6 as my drum controller.
I also have an AKAI MPK 25, with pads. Easy when just wanting to preview kit pieces, but I still haven't been able to get close to the ease an E-drum kit provides for doing more than that.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#21
filtersweep
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/07/07 00:53:05 (permalink)
I have Machine Mikro MkII and have to say it is joy to use once you get your templates set up in Midi Mode. It would be a wonderful thing if NI included basic templates for several vsti like AD2, SESSION, BFD, etc., but if they do, I am yet to find them. There is a template for Battery which works nicely.  2 things I hadnt clued in to when I first went about setting up AD2 template: different AD2 kits are mapped somewhat differently so one map will not cover all your kits, and, 16 pads allows you to program 16 separate drum articulations, not necessarily 16 drums. IOW, there are multiple articulations for, for instance, snare and individual cymbals. You can't turn a snare hit into a rimshot depending on how you strike the pad. You need to use 2 different pads. That said, the 16 pads provide enough options for me and they are nicely playable once you get the hang of it.
 
As you probably know, Maschine is really its own recording environment. I think of it as multi track supersequencer / beat and groove producer and even that oversimplifies. There is a serious learning curve to it but it is fun to fool around in the environment. Using it in midi mode doesnt even scratch the surface of its capabilities, but truthfully, that is how I use it most frequently.

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#22
scottfa
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/07/08 02:18:23 (permalink)
I have a trapkat that has been problem free for +15 years. 24 pads and 2 pedals. Amazing, as i pound on it almost daily... 

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#23
slavedave
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/07/08 11:28:53 (permalink)
In no particular order I have owned:
Drumkat 3.5
Trapkat
DIY vdrums with a Roland TD-8 brain / home made edrum module
Korg Nanopad
Korg PadKontrol
Yamaha DTX12 Multi
Zendrum LT
Aerodrums
Kat KT2
Roland Handsonic 15 and 10
 
They all have their pros and cons (my priorities change but usually revolve around portability and enough pads for a kit).   All have been useful for playing.   The most versatile were probably the TrapKat and the Drumkat, and if I could afford a single controller again it would be the Trapkat XL.   However, the Korg units were very compact for taking out to rehearsals.  The handsonics were very hands-on and fun to play,  I currently use the aerodrums, the Zendrum and the Kat KT2 but the aerodrums are probably going to be sold soon.   I prefer to play with sticks if I can and the Kat allows you some realtime articulations that are difficult / impossible on finger/ hand pad controllers.   The Zendrum is a piece of art with amazing sensitivity and that may be the last instrument to go but it has it's limitations - although it is very ergonomic to wear and play.  The Yamaha had the best internal drum sounds and reasonable pads to play with sticks.
 
Try to borrow controllers from friends to see if they will suit your workflow.   The pad controllers can be modded easily to increase their sensitivity and their are several youtube vids to teach you that (and they are by far the cheapest option).  Watch David Haynes videos to see a true musician playing them - amazing skill.
#24
glennstanton
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Re: Drum Controller 2017/07/08 16:18:43 (permalink)
Roland TD-3 drum kit (via audio and midisport 8x8) - basically takes up 3'6" x 2'6" and I swivel my chair around to sit at desk or kit. also, I've used my Yamaha DD-55 with the pads re-wired to directly output to the TD-3 brain as an ultra compact kit live - put the DD-55 on a snare stand, clamp the TD-3 unit to the same stand, use the hihat and bass pedal controls as normal.

-- Glenn
 
 
 
 
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