Helpful ReplyDo you use much hardware?

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space_cowboy
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2017/07/23 15:08:39 (permalink)

Do you use much hardware?

This is probably the wrong place to ask, but here goes...
 
What outboard gear do you still use? 
Me - I just got a OB6.  I have a Waldorf Wave, a Memorymoog and a Synthi AKS.  They sound better to me than the plugins.   
 
I have a UA LA 610 - a LA2A style compressor with a 610 preamp.  Great for using a Mic with.  I had an Avalon 737, but it was too clean/transparent for my tastes.  The UA departs a great signature sound.  
 
I have a slew of mics from when we recorded as a band a bunch.  Most were for the drums (421s, SM57s, Some large diaphragm overheads...)  I also use my Firefly a lot.  I have a U87, U149, 2 KM 184s and a Manley tube mic.  
While I am warming up to the Unison mode on my Apollo Firewire, I still use real valve amps.  I have a Marshall 1 watt JCM800 thingy, a couple of Mesas, and I recently ordered a Glaswerks amp that is supposed to be one of the best at capturing the feel and sound of a Dumble.  I have a Motherload speaker emulator that lets me record a tube amp direct.  I am very interested in this new UA device that is coming out soon.  
 
I keep looking at the Series 500 rack pres and compressors, but I am also trying to figure if I am gaining anything versus just using the UA Apollo in Unison with an API or UA pre.  
 
I am currently mixer-free.  I do have the Berhinger X Touch, but it is a controller not a mixer.  I also have the Console 1 which is amazing for getting the sound right as opposed to using the same plugins and a mouse!  And having a whole channel strip (gate/EQ/Compressor) in a package is sweet
 
You?
 
 
 

Some people call me Maurice
 
SPLAT Pro lifetime, ADK 6 core 3.6Ghz with 32 GB RAM, SSD 1TB system drive, 3 3TB regular drives for samples, recordings and misc.  Behringer X Touch, UAD Apollo Quad.  2 UAD2 Quads PCI (i think - inside the box whatever that is), Console 1.  More guitars (40??) and synths (hard and soft) than talent.  Zendrum!!!
#1
Zargg
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/23 15:28:03 (permalink)
Hi. I have much the same setup as you. I've got a Drawmer MX60 in addition to my LA 610 MKII and the RME Ucx preamps.
I have a Tascam FW 1884, a Console 1 (first edition), 2 MIDI keyboards and a couple of mics.
I've had quite the draft through my studio the last years, as I've tried many different outboard fx. Just found it a lot easier, and even sounding better to use ITB fx.
I've also been looking at the 500 series, but have realized that as long as it's just me here, I'm VERY pleased with my setup.
My GAS has been cured for a while 
Need better monitors though, so perhaps not completely cured 
All the best.
Edited:
I also have Fender Strat (MIM), Epiphone Goth, Yamaha RBX 375, Seagull 12 string and a Manuel Rodriguez (Mod B) classical nylon string guitar.
I often use my Line 6 Pod HD500 when recording "heavy" guitars. Starting to use amp sims a little more lately..
post edited by Zargg - 2017/07/25 11:07:06

Ken Nilsen
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#2
Marshall
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/23 16:50:51 (permalink)
I've just got my first piece of what I think of as "hardware" - a Rockett Archer guitar pedal. I use it in front of S Gear on clean amps and I love it.
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AT
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/23 16:54:27 (permalink)
I am really surprised there isn't more emphasis on hardware in these forums.  Of course, it is a software forum, but still, much of recording has do with actual recording of acoustical energy, and one would think it would be more discussed.  Of course, there is always Gearslutz, where they count the number of preamp on the head of a pin.
 
I still use hardware synths (FIZMO, Mini, Odessy and a Siel) but mostly soft synths for synthetic, not acoustical emulations.  For my own music, analog synth sounding strings etc. and "sounds" are more important than realistic emulations.  But unless you are recording acoustical drums (I don't really have the room), AD and drum synths are hugely important.  It is the one thing that can put home recordings on par with big studios, because it is next to impossible to record good drums in a home studio.  And I know re-mixers who replace/augment drums from major studios - what chance does a 14 x 15 ft room with 8.5 ft. to the ceiling have.  It will likely either ring or be baffled to sound death when put up against loud drums. 
 
For more minimal acoustical recordings,  a nice front end can overcome a lot of obstacles.  The garden variety of conversion and pres in most modern interfaces are great.  But there are times when big ole transformer goodness can help, and all those nice electronic components passing electrons can stamp your sound just like a large console.  It becomes easier to get a big, round, sound, and some sudden loud acoustic recording that will crap out an IC pre that has 55 dBs of gain, just goes down digitally smooth as a spoonful of sugar.  More gain also = distance or reach with your mic, so you can back it off signals with extreme range of gain, which can give you tone but also help protect from mic overs since air and space naturally compress sound.  Doubling the distance to your mic means only a quarter of the signal energy is hitting the mic.  Of course, with only 55 dB of gain, that signal is now wrestling with the noise floor.
 
The best hardware I've collected lately is all front end stuff.  The RND (Neve Designs) Portico II does everything - pre, comp, eq & filters, de-esser and silk.  Stuff comes in and sounds better, it has tons of headroom and does just about every trick.  Once you get a handle on it, you can deliver a rock solid, pre-shaped sound to your computer, shaving off a few dBs of via compression to deliver a firm signal.  It really makes mixing so much easier, and the more you work with it (or similarly spec'ed hardware) the easier and quicker it is to shape the sound since you know what it can do.  The other great buys are WARM Audio's 1176 and LA-2A.  Those are historically distinctive units, almost one trick ponies, but the trick they do you've heard on just about every commercial release for 50 years.  Software works nice, I love Cake's versions, and softubes etc.  But there is something about going in with the tone live that software can't quite replicate, at least to my ears.  It is part of the beauty of recording.  I know a lot of people claim there is no difference between software and hardware, or between hardware units, yada yada yada.  But tell a guitarist that all 6 strings sound alike. Or feel.  Or an Orange sound the same as a Roland amp.  I mean, they both are just amps.  You'll get pushback.
 
The more you get it right during tracking, the quicker and easier the rest of the process goes.  

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Zargg
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/23 17:58:12 (permalink)
AT
 The best hardware I've collected lately is all front end stuff.  
The more you get it right during tracking, the quicker and easier the rest of the process goes.  


Shortened quote, but I agree very much 

Ken Nilsen
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#5
JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/23 18:08:10 (permalink)
When I started off software emulations didn't exist so everything I used was analog and/or hardware based. And I hated it. I hated it because my budget dictated that just about everything I had was a knock-off or sub-par version of what I really wanted to be working with. And of course almost none of it could be automated in any practical way.
 
Yep, I had that great 'analog' sound on spades back then. But oddly enough nothing I ever did with it ever sounded all that great to me nor anyone else. As computer based sequencers began to morph into the DAW's we all enjoy today, I eagerly jumped on board, got rid of all my hardware and never looked back.

Almost everyone will claim that any software synth emulation will never sound as good as the original hardware and perhaps they're right. All I know is the soft synths sound pretty great to my ears and they never break or need to have the cobwebs blown out. And more importantly no one and I mean no one who is likely to listen any mp3 audio I produce would ever be able to tell the difference if their live depended on it. It sounds like a Moog to me and it sounds like a Moog to them.

That being said, I did come full circle this year and add an outboard processor to my rack. I bought an old PCM 91. Not because it sounds so much better than my plugins, it doesn't. I bought it to help reduce the plugin load on the CPU a bit and because good bad or indifferent it sounds like PCM 91 and I kind of like that sound on some things.

 
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.  -microapp
 
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bitman
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/23 19:22:18 (permalink)
I have an SRS box that I use late in project life. Aside from that, I'm 100% ITB.
 
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tlw
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/23 21:34:09 (permalink)
Most of the stuff I use to create sound is hardware, most guitar processing is done by old-fashioned hardware. The main ITB synths/samplers I use are for acoustic-style drums and "oddball" instruments used for effect. And piano sounds and sometimes pads and drones that software synths, especially wavetablers such as Nave, make possible in a way hardware generally doesn't. My life would be much easier if I could comfortably do ITB things I do using hardware, but unfortunately I can't.

Most of the stuff isn't particularly expensive either. Now is a good time to find relatively cheap and good synths for example, the market is awash with them.

Pretty much all studio-type processing - eq, compression, reverb, delay - is done ITB and I use a bunch of plugin effects as well.

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Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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lfm
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/23 21:50:20 (permalink)
NordLead 2X, KingKorg, Yamaha CLP-535 and Hammond XK3C - and Yamaha DTXPRESS IV Special eDrums.
Three guitar tube amps, Laney, Koch and Fender, fed into patch bay, so I can cross connect any preamp and power amp. And pedalboard to go with it. Last piece in the puzzle just two months ago - Digitech FreqOut so you can emulate feedback without running really loud.
 
Hardware - does guitars count?
And handful of those too.
 
I only have Dimension Pro and Magix Independence Suite ITB left as instruments, and SuperiorDrummer for drums then. So might go Roland Integra or FA06 for more external.
 
Just take the NL2X or KK on the armrest of favourite chair and sit and make patches for a day. Never happend in computer. Physical knobs right there.
 
And same with Hammond, you just press and button and sit and play and make new patches. Tried with various setups with B4 and an UC-33 controller, but it does not match soundwise or workflow, not even close. Tried Korg CX-3 v2 and sound good - in two octaves, not more. Might get the new XK5 - with four draw bar sets like B3. XK3C is just a lovely creature,
 
Addictive Keys is rather nice, but Yamaha is just so organic, and good Rhodes nowadays too - at last. Pretty nice choirs as well.
 
Out of the box it is....
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Razorwit
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/23 21:53:16 (permalink)
Space, I'm still right there in hardware land with you. I have more mics than I can shake a (drum) stick at, 20 or so channels of various mic pres, 16 channels of SSL summing and various other stuff. I'll give up my Distressor, 1176's, and my SSL bus comp when you pry them from my cold, dark-magic-infused, undead-lich-hands. Not to mention all the guitar amps (8 or 9). And pedals (way too many...oh god, I need professional help). And weird other doo-dads (few things make me happier in a session these days than the words "triad-orbit").
 
Oh, and I've definitely made the leap into 500-series land. C'mon in, the waters fine...the only thing you'll be drowning in is sweet audio goodness...OK, and possibly debt. But also sweet audio goodness.
 
Dean

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#10
interpolated
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/23 22:10:45 (permalink)
If I ever have the chance I want to get a good mixer for summing my mix to analogue before sending it back to the box again. Doesn't have to be SSL or anything, just a good sound.
 

I have computer stuff.
 
https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
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bitman
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/23 22:42:14 (permalink)
Oh controllers too? Yeah.
1. Fatar 88 key keyboard
2. Alesis DM7x midi drum set
3. 4 x BCF2000
 
 
That's it.
 
#12
ljb500
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/24 05:23:54 (permalink)
I always fancied a hardware synth and an mpc but I'm restricted to space and money so such things would be a luxury right now.
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mixmkr
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/24 17:13:09 (permalink)
All my $2-500 tack units from the 80's onward just look cool but collect dust nowadays.

some tunes: --->        www.masonharwoodproject.bandcamp.com 
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#14
space_cowboy
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/24 20:49:59 (permalink)
Razorwit
Space, I'm still right there in hardware land with you. I have more mics than I can shake a (drum) stick at, 20 or so channels of various mic pres, 16 channels of SSL summing and various other stuff. I'll give up my Distressor, 1176's, and my SSL bus comp when you pry them from my cold, dark-magic-infused, undead-lich-hands. Not to mention all the guitar amps (8 or 9). And pedals (way too many...oh god, I need professional help). And weird other doo-dads (few things make me happier in a session these days than the words "triad-orbit").
 
Oh, and I've definitely made the leap into 500-series land. C'mon in, the waters fine...the only thing you'll be drowning in is sweet audio goodness...OK, and possibly debt. But also sweet audio goodness.
 
Dean


Razor 
I have my LA 610 which is amazing, but it has that Universal Audio sound.  I have thought about capturing other types of sound (Neve for example) or maybe a hybrid channel strip - with a british eq and a US mike pre and a distressor compressor...I just made that up, but you get the idea.  and with the lunch box sizes of these, there is no reason you could not have two separate flavored channel strips running.  

Some people call me Maurice
 
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#15
bapu
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/24 21:50:43 (permalink)
LA 610 MKII, RME Fireface UFX, Presonus FaderPort, Dual UAD-2 Quad cards (I consider these hardware, you may not), dbx 160A compressor, P-Solo preamp, Grace M101 preamp, dbx 266xs dual compressor/limiter/gate and my Alembic F2-B preamp.
 
Alesis e-drums with the Gen-16 cymbal system.
 
Mics: AEA R84 Ribbon Mic, 1980's AKG C414 B-ULS (Transformerless mod) & 1990's AKG SolidTube. And a few other stock Shure mics found in any studio.
 
The amps I have don't count because I never record from a real amp.
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Kev999
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/24 23:28:54 (permalink)
I only began using outboard hardware in the past couple of years. For me, it was really just about mixing things up a bit and experimenting and learning new ways of working. I still work 99% in the box though.

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cparmerlee
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/25 00:45:32 (permalink)
AT
I am really surprised there isn't more emphasis on hardware in these forums.  Of course, it is a software forum, but still, much of recording has do with actual recording of acoustical energy, and one would think it would be more discussed.



There is a school of thought that says everything worth doing can be done in software.  And if it can't today, it will be tomorrow.  If one subscribes to that school of thought, then one might make every effort to eliminate every piece of non-essential hardware.  Naturally each piece of hardware is a potential source of noise and distortion.
 
I know not everybody believes in this vision (yet.)
 
For the things I do, I don't want ANY hardware around other than the computer, speakers, MIDI keyboard, microphones, and maybe a control surface.  But we all may have very different needs and objectives.

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#18
gswitz
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/25 01:33:56 (permalink)
I like hardware. 
 
In this video I tried showing how TH3 Emulation really is different than using the real mics.
https://youtu.be/L3GKLkHxGqI
 
The longer I play and record, the more I enjoy just playing without recording. And I also don't mind coloring the sound on the way in when I do record.
 
It's really fun to get a live sound that you would have been proud to get after an unlimited time with Sonar.
 
 

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#19
smallstonefan
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/25 01:37:27 (permalink)
I was a huge guitar tone snob for a lot of years and went through a massive amount of guitar gear. I had rack with 3 CGXs all hand-wired (made my own cables from Lava cables) and was very much into capacitance of cables and tube types.
 
My favorite rig was running my 1964 Super Reverb in stereo with a Dr. Z Maz 18. I then put a true mid-80s Roland Jazz chorus in the middle with stereo, so I had stereo within stereo.
 
My favorite outboard was my Valvulator VHT (which I still use as a buffer, fantastic device!) into a Strobo stomp, old Boomerang wah, 1st generation Smallstone for phaser, Skreddy Top Fuel for overdrive, Tube Screamer 4 knob for alternative distortion, my Echoplex 3, a Line 6 Flanger (and believe me I owned them all) into an Eventide stereo chorus pedal to split off into stereo.
 
I loved the journey and had tone to die for!
 
Now I run through a Fractal Axe FX II. 
 
and I love it.
 
while  I cannot reproduce my sound 100%, I can get REALLY close, and the sound of the Axe recorded is better than the sound of the analog recording I was getting when using Mics. I can also get cranked amp sounds with low room volume. As a fan of crazy effects, I love the 100% recallability. I still have a lot of the analog but the only three I really use at times now are the Echoplex, The Smallstone, and the Top Fuel.
 
Perhaps it's because I'm running out of VSTs, or guitars to buy, or effects, etc. but I've started to get into hardware again. I bought a Midas Venice 32 mixing console to use for micing my drum kit on the front end and for analog summing on the back end. I just got a two channel Neve 1073 from Stam Audio (Stam 1073DPA). I plan to use for vocals as well as perhaps for on the back-end of the Midas when summing to analog. I have a Stam Audio SA-4000 on order - this is Stams' SSL G bus clone and I entend to use it on my master, after the summing (and after the 1073 if I use it). I also have a Stam 1176 and La2A on order. I have access to an incredible female singer and I want to give her the best front-end I can.
 
So for me, the hardware is a cycle like anything else in life, and there are seasons. I can be pro analog for a while, then love the convenience and flexibility of digital, and now I found I can enjoy a hybrid.
 
if it sounds good it is good... :)
 
 
 
#20
space_cowboy
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/25 01:44:19 (permalink)
bapu
LA 610 MKII, RME Fireface UFX, Presonus FaderPort, Dual UAD-2 Quad cards (I consider these hardware, you may not), dbx 160A compressor, P-Solo preamp, Grace M101 preamp, dbx 266xs dual compressor/limiter/gate and my Alembic F2-B preamp.
 
Alesis e-drums with the Gen-16 cymbal system.
 
Mics: AEA R84 Ribbon Mic, 1980's AKG C414 B-ULS (Transformerless mod) & 1990's AKG SolidTube. And a few other stock Shure mics found in any studio.
 
The amps I have don't count because I never record from a real amp.


Dude
I had 2 UAD Quads.  Then I replaced my RMEs with UAD Apollo. I am now at 12 processors of UAD sweet sweet goodness.  

Some people call me Maurice
 
SPLAT Pro lifetime, ADK 6 core 3.6Ghz with 32 GB RAM, SSD 1TB system drive, 3 3TB regular drives for samples, recordings and misc.  Behringer X Touch, UAD Apollo Quad.  2 UAD2 Quads PCI (i think - inside the box whatever that is), Console 1.  More guitars (40??) and synths (hard and soft) than talent.  Zendrum!!!
#21
AT
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/25 04:53:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2017/07/26 18:12:44
Of course, not having a hardware interface with analog pres and converters would leave you recording Cage's  4'33" over and over again. ;-)

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#22
Kev999
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/25 08:16:47 (permalink)
Yes, I had assumed that audio interfaces would be excluded from the discussion (as would speakers, headphones, computers and midi keyboards).

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#23
cparmerlee
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/25 13:39:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2017/07/26 18:13:02
AT
Of course, not having a hardware interface with analog pres and converters would leave you recording Cage's  4'33" over and over again. ;-)

Did he copyright that?
 
I wonder if I can copyright the sound of applause. Royalties every time anybody claps.

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#24
Pragi
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/25 14:30:47 (permalink)
Wonna record and mix with more  hardware.
I´m already using the Golden Age Pre 73,mics like the
Sennheiser e 906 ,Se Electronics 220o a ,shure sm 57 aso,
a Lexicon mx 200 , guitars and amps .
Would like to get a decent stereo eq in the next 12 month.
#25
Cactus Music
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/25 14:50:19 (permalink)
interpolated
If I ever have the chance I want to get a good mixer for summing my mix to analogue before sending it back to the box again. Doesn't have to be SSL or anything, just a good sound.
 




 
This topic has been gone over and over in forums like Gear sluts... Bottom line there is no advantage UNLESS you do have a million dollar board.
 And like mentioned above you are better off spending the money on your front end. Get the sound your after FIRST. then record it. I am against making a half arsed recording and then spending weeks trying to make it sound good in the box.  
 
Big hardware fan here. I have a lot of my older stuff including mixers, synths and rack gear. I even have a Cassette player that hasn't been plugged in for 5 years but you never know! 
Speaking of front end I just ordered this Radial PZ Pre- for my acoustics It will be for both live shows and the studio. 


Johnny V  
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#26
gerard st. pierre
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/25 21:02:42 (permalink)
Hats off to you 'old school' guys !
 
I turned 54 this year and my ears don't like the vst's as much but my back and hernia love them....grin.
 
but....there are some superior vst's out there.......just sayin
 
#27
chuckebaby
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/25 21:25:23 (permalink)
I've gotten away from Guitar Sims and gone back to the old school approach (Micing a cab).
Been using a JCA 20 for the past few months as I can push it hard and not break the kitchen plates.
 
I do believe a summing mixer on the back 9 can help. Its always been about color, pre amps, EQ, compressors and their coloring. a summing mixer can do the same as long as its a decent one. Personally I run my mixes in to a Tascam Studio 8 Reel then feed it back for master. This has been working well for me and more importantly giving me a unique sound. Something that's hard to find now in this day and age with everyone using the same plug ins, Same workstations.

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#28
Pragi
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/26 06:23:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chuckebaby 2017/07/26 11:13:24
chuckebaby
I've gotten away from Guitar Sims and gone back to the old school approach (Micing a cab).
Been using a JCA 20 for the past few months as I can push it hard and not break the kitchen plates.
 
I do believe a summing mixer on the back 9 can help. Its always been about color, pre amps, EQ, compressors and their coloring. a summing mixer can do the same as long as its a decent one. Personally I run my mixes in to a Tascam Studio 8 Reel then feed it back for master. This has been working well for me and more importantly giving me a unique sound. Something that's hard to find now in this day and age with everyone using the same plug ins, Same workstations.


Good point , Chuck,
that´s what I´m going for - a unique sound.
For me the last months it´s about the guit and amp sound .
As you said- hard to get an own sound.
 
Can hear some pro ´s mentioning that the sound of a guit comes 
out of the fingers.
 
regards
#29
chuckebaby
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Re: Do you use much hardware? 2017/07/26 11:13:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Pragi 2017/07/26 17:12:08
Pragi
Can hear some pro ´s mentioning that the sound of a guit comes 
out of the fingers.
 
regards




You are right. the fingers have a lot to do with it, picking technique as well (Closer to the bridge/Closer to the neck). The toughest change for me was adjusting my ears to real amps again. After years of using Amp Sims, I found my ears had accepted a thinner sound with not as much meat. So when I went back to using real Amps again that bottom end meat seemed overwhelming to me. Personally I was having trouble with it.
 
Amps Sims are amazing and they have really come a long way since the old days (POD 2.0 :-).
And they are very convenient as far as neighbor love goes. But a real amp still sounds better than anything.

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#30
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