Helpful ReplyBizarre changes in audio....

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Benjitara
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2017/08/14 08:49:00 (permalink)

Bizarre changes in audio....

Hey guys.
A bit of a bizarre one from me today.
I've completed a track to a decent standard recently. It sounds fine through my studio monitors as a general statement but when I turn the computer on and use the computer speakers (not my studio monitors)  I get big variants in the volume of the mix (and individual instruments) throughout the song. It's like my computer speakers are picking up the compression on individual tracks and squeezing certain parts of the track....
Unfortunately I think the computer quality is the quality i'll get when burning to cd so I wouldn't mind any suggestions on what might be happening....
To my knowledge I'm not clipping the track anywhere in the mix.
The acoustic guitars and bass are the most effected. It's like they are on a real wave(sea wave) going in and out of the mix...
I've got light compressor on the master bus that's producing a reduction of around 2db at its highest...
any help / feedback/ would be mush appreciated...
 
PS
I've also tried listening to it through headphones through the computer. It doesn't seem as bad through the headphones. Could it just be the limitations of the computer speakers? or could it be the master EQ could be too severe leading to certain frequencies seeming too soft on the computer speakers? I've also made 4 separate recordings of the guitar and panned 2 each side the exact same width which could explain the sudden perceived loss of volume when the strumming isn't so consistent?  or none of the above, haha
cheers
 
post edited by Benjitara - 2017/08/14 09:19:26
#1
57Gregy
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Re: Bizarre changes in audio.... 2017/08/14 14:23:10 (permalink)
Check your computer sound card that it doesn't have some "enhancement" on by default, especially Volume Leveling.

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Cactus Music
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Re: Bizarre changes in audio.... 2017/08/14 14:26:59 (permalink)
57Gregy
Check your computer sound card that it doesn't have some "enhancement" on by default, especially Volume Leveling.


+1 
This is a common issue with playback. 
Ultimately export your song and put it on a USB stick. 
These day most car stereos and getto blasters play USB, even TV sets. 
If not burn a CD

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#3
bitflipper
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Re: Bizarre changes in audio.... 2017/08/14 15:43:38 (permalink)
Of all the challenges a mixer/producer has to overcome, this one is by far the most pernicious and troublesome. You're not alone; everybody deals with it!
 
Initially, it can seem like an insurmountable obstacle, but it does have a solution. There's no magic bullet, unfortunately, but all you have to do is listen to and study well-made commercial recordings, and listen to them in a variety of scenarios to reassure yourself that it is indeed solvable.
 
The root of the problem is that every playback system and every acoustical space is different, and each has flaws that prevent the music from being heard as recorded and mixed. Every playback system is deficient in some way - and here's the gotcha: they're all deficient in different ways. What you have to do is mix and master for the statistical center.
 
The hardest (and most expensive) step is putting together a neutral listening environment. That means high-quality ($$) speakers, and even more important, acoustical treatments to neutralize the sound of your room. Hey, if it was easy everybody'd do it.
 
With quality speakers and acoustical absorption, you'll be able to hear those differences that might be exaggerated on one system or another, such as excessive reverb, too much compression, shrill 4-5 KHz or too much bass.
 
As you noted, some of these problems are automatically mitigated by headphones. However, that's because headphones have their own limitations: skewed frequency response, limited dynamic range, an unnatural panorama. An oft-repeated truism is that things sound better on headphones. There is simply no substitute for speakers in a neutral-sounding room. If it sounds good there, it'll sound even better on headphones (although the reverse is rarely true).
 
Until then, there are things you can do. First, get familiar with spectrum analyzers. SPAN is free and very useful. Start by loading up your favorite commercial recordings in your preferred genre into a project and observing their spectra. Listen to them over and over on your speakers while watching SPAN. What you're doing is training your ears to recognize what a good mix sounds like on your speakers, while correlating that to a visual representation of their frequency distributions.
 
Use your headphones, not to decide what sounds good but rather to listen closely for small details that may be obfuscated by your computer speakers. Listen for excessive reverb, over-compression, extraneous noises and masking. That's what headphones are good at, even cheap ones.
 
That'll get you much closer to your goal while you're saving up for a speaker upgrade. In the meantime, do some studying, which is cheap or free. Go to Ethan Winer's Realtraps website; there is a lot of helpful information there about acoustics. Get a copy of Bob Katz's book, Mastering Audio and read it twice. And most important, just keep on doing it - plan on burning through a big stack of blank CDs before you're happy with the results!


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#4
pwalpwal
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Re: Bizarre changes in audio.... 2017/08/14 17:14:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2017/08/15 02:41:28
Also, go ahead and burn a cd already, and try it on other systems... computer (laptop?) speakers won't be any match to studio monitors!
Good luck!

just a sec

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Benjitara
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Re: Bizarre changes in audio.... 2017/08/14 21:42:33 (permalink)
Thanks for your replies guys.
Much appreciated.
Sure is a fascinating and at times frustrating thing to do this!
cheers for your knowledge and willingness to pass it on.'
Ben
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tlw
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Re: Bizarre changes in audio.... 2017/08/15 02:54:07 (permalink)
Just to reassure you, what gets burned to a CD has nothing at all to do with what speakers you are using or whether you're using the most expensive interface on the planet or the PC's built-in chip. Or even have no playback system at all on the computer.

All burning a CD from an audio file does is tell the computer to read a lot of 0s and 1s from the HDD/SDD and re-arrange them into 0s and 1s that meet the audio CD standard then instruct the CD burner to copy them onto the disk.

As far as the PC,s concerned it could equally well be burning a data disk - all it's interested in is the input file, the output file and the process necessary to accurately turn one into another.

On the subject of playback systems it's no surprise that a track sounds different through two different systems, it would be very surprising if it didn't. All you can do is aim for a result that sounds OK on a range of systems and hopefully sounds good on better systems. There's no way of telling what someone might be listening to the track on - high end hi-fi (which often has far from a flat response) a studio setup, a car system with loads of background noise and dreadful acoustics, laptop/tabletphone speakers, the cheapest mp3 player and ear-buds China has to offer with the bass boost function set to "destroy"... all are possible.

It's easier if you know, for example, you are aiming for a good sound on a powerful full-range club system - which may be in mono which has implications all of it's own - and you can afford to either ignore everything else or produce different masters or even different mixers. Otherwise you get to join the rest of us who do what we can, hope to keep learning and hope to keep getting better at it.

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Benjitara
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Re: Bizarre changes in audio.... 2017/08/15 21:04:11 (permalink)
tlw
Just to reassure you, what gets burned to a CD has nothing at all to do with what speakers you are using or whether you're using the most expensive interface on the planet or the PC's built-in chip. Or even have no playback system at all on the computer.

All burning a CD from an audio file does is tell the computer to read a lot of 0s and 1s from the HDD/SDD and re-arrange them into 0s and 1s that meet the audio CD standard then instruct the CD burner to copy them onto the disk.

As far as the PC,s concerned it could equally well be burning a data disk - all it's interested in is the input file, the output file and the process necessary to accurately turn one into another.

On the subject of playback systems it's no surprise that a track sounds different through two different systems, it would be very surprising if it didn't. All you can do is aim for a result that sounds OK on a range of systems and hopefully sounds good on better systems. There's no way of telling what someone might be listening to the track on - high end hi-fi (which often has far from a flat response) a studio setup, a car system with loads of background noise and dreadful acoustics, laptop/tabletphone speakers, the cheapest mp3 player and ear-buds China has to offer with the bass boost function set to "destroy"... all are possible.

It's easier if you know, for example, you are aiming for a good sound on a powerful full-range club system - which may be in mono which has implications all of it's own - and you can afford to either ignore everything else or produce different masters or even different mixers. Otherwise you get to join the rest of us who do what we can, hope to keep learning and hope to keep getting better at it.



Thanks for your feedback tlw.
I actually was wondering that.... (what was the actual mix, what was coming out of the speakers or what was happening through my studio monitors)
Funny thing with other songs I've had little problem with the quality across systems it just happens to the song I want to be the best has come out a "lumpy" across the computer speakers.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Bizarre changes in audio.... 2017/08/15 23:26:27 (permalink)
Actually one reason I disable all on board audio on my DAW is to avoid playback issues. 
My songs will sound the same in media player or win amp as they do with Sonar and Wave Lab. 
 
I only burn a CD because my truck has an old stereo system. My wife's car is newer and has USB playback. I have a getto blaster in the front room with USB playback and an office computer with my old Tannoys and a good stereo system. I even have my live PA system set up in my studio complete with a small sub if I want to proof a mix real loud! 

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stevesweat
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Re: Bizarre changes in audio.... 2017/08/16 12:07:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2017/08/16 14:12:03
You might try disabling any compressors used in the mix and reevaluate the computer speaker situation. I had a recent mix that I overcompressed and the "breathing" volume fluctuations were horrendous on pretty much every sound system besides the DAW station.

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