Helpful ReplyReaktor 6....WTF??

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paulo
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2017/08/18 18:59:03 (permalink)

Reaktor 6....WTF??

 
Trying to see what this is all about for the first time, looking in Reaktor Factory Library and I mostly seem to have a collection of things with some presets that I either can't get to make a noise at all (ie Blue matrix) or things that won't stop making a noise (ie Metaphysical function)
 
I have just asked the internet for  the manual, so yes I can and will RTFM, but before I get too far into that, is this how it's meant to be or is there something wrong with my installation? 
#1
shawker
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/18 19:17:08 (permalink)
Reaktor is probably the deepest and most challenging vst's out there, due to the wide array of thing that can be built with it.  In standalone Reaktor, you need to press the start playback button (top middle of the screen, left of tempo) to get Blue Matrix to play.  All of the Sequenced Instruments and Groove Boxes work this way.  Some instruments need to be played with a keyboard, and others like Metaphysical function, and the other Sound Generators, drone on and on forever, as intended.  Reading the manual will help, also try utube for an introduction to Reaktor.  Be patient, it will take a while to get the hang of it. 
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paulo
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/19 10:00:25 (permalink)
shawker
Reaktor is probably the deepest and most challenging vst's out there, due to the wide array of thing that can be built with it.  In standalone Reaktor, you need to press the start playback button (top middle of the screen, left of tempo) to get Blue Matrix to play.  All of the Sequenced Instruments and Groove Boxes work this way.  Some instruments need to be played with a keyboard, and others like Metaphysical function, and the other Sound Generators, drone on and on forever, as intended.  Reading the manual will help, also try utube for an introduction to Reaktor.  Be patient, it will take a while to get the hang of it. 




OK, I had it open as a vst within Sonar and the play button is not there. As you say in standalone version it is, so at least I wasn't going mad when I couldn't find it. 
 
What I have learned so far then is that I have some vst's that don't work within Sonar and some vst's that do what they want to and I can't tell them when to STFU and that this is intended behaviour. I'm not sure that I have enough patience to ever get my head around that particular concept tbh.
 
Thanks for replying.
 
 
 
 
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/19 14:11:09 (permalink)
Reaktor works fine in Sonar but it's a really weird concept. Just find a ready made patch to play

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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/19 17:22:34 (permalink)
paulo
 
 
OK, I had it open as a vst within Sonar and the play button is not there. As you say in standalone version it is, so at least I wasn't going mad when I couldn't find it. 
 
What I have learned so far then is that I have some vst's that don't work within Sonar and some vst's that do what they want to and I can't tell them when to STFU and that this is intended behaviour. I'm not sure that I have enough patience to ever get my head around that particular concept tbh.
 
 

If you're in Sonar then use the Sonar play button. Reaktor works fine in Sonar, you just have to know how to use it.

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Uneven634
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/19 17:51:10 (permalink)
Reaktor is great, but really a weird beast sometimes.
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/19 19:21:51 (permalink)
rsinger
paulo
 
 
OK, I had it open as a vst within Sonar and the play button is not there. As you say in standalone version it is, so at least I wasn't going mad when I couldn't find it. 
 
 

If you're in Sonar then use the Sonar play button. Reaktor works fine in Sonar, you just have to know how to use it.




Yeah, I figured that much out now, but that only seems to work for me when in record mode, which is not much help when I'm just trying to audition things and see what the presets are etc before committing to anything Not a big deal when Reaktor is  the only track so far, but within an existing project when everything else is also playing it's a bit distracting to say the least. I guess I can always mute the other tracks or just solo the reaktor one, but it's not ideal IMO. When something feels like you have to fight with it every time  just to do something that should be simple it just ruins the mood for me.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/19 23:26:39 (permalink)
I think each and every Reaktor ensemble should be thought of as a new instrument or effect rather than as a patch. So much is possible. some ensembles are impenetrable and some are straight forward,

If an ensemble acts in a certain way its because it was programed that way, its helpful to think of Reaktor as a platform rather than as an instrument.

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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/20 10:01:42 (permalink)
Glyn Barnes
I think each and every Reaktor ensemble should be thought of as a new instrument or effect rather than as a patch. So much is possible. some ensembles are impenetrable and some are straight forward,

If an ensemble acts in a certain way its because it was programed that way, its helpful to think of Reaktor as a platform rather than as an instrument.



Yes, I do consider them that way, I was referring to the presets within some of the ensembles. Not being able to simply try them out with a project without the project playing seems ridiculous and counterintuitive to me and I still can't get my head around the fact that some sounds once selected seem to have no way of stopping them from making a noise. That really doesn't take very long at all to do my head in. 
 
Some of it is interesting, but some seems to me to be a case of just being different for the sake of being different. I can't see those getting a lot of use from me.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/20 11:29:18 (permalink)
paulo
 
Some of it is interesting, but some seems to me to be a case of just being different for the sake of being different. I can't see those getting a lot of use from me.

Even more so if you go to the users content on the NI website There is a lot of good stuff there but in many cases getting an idea of what it does and how to use it is a major challenge. Remember some things are effects and need an audio in, not instruments.



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Magic Russ
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/20 13:54:20 (permalink)
paulo
 
Trying to see what this is all about for the first time, looking in Reaktor Factory Library and I mostly seem to have a collection of things with some presets that I either can't get to make a noise at all (ie Blue matrix) or things that won't stop making a noise (ie Metaphysical function)



I don't remember what blue matrix is all about, but just making space noises is the point of metaphysical function.
 
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paulo
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/20 14:41:24 (permalink)
Magic Russ
 
....... just making space noises is the point of metaphysical function.
 




I gathered that, and it certainly makes some interesting noises, it would be just be nice to be able to start and stop it a little more elegantly than with an on or off click of the mouse. Would it really have been so difficult to trigger it with a keyboard and have it stop when the key(s) are released? Or maybe you can and I just can't figure out how ? That's really what my WTF? is about.
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paulo
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/20 14:43:27 (permalink)
Glyn Barnes
paulo
 
Some of it is interesting, but some seems to me to be a case of just being different for the sake of being different. I can't see those getting a lot of use from me.

Even more so if you go to the users content on the NI website There is a lot of good stuff there but in many cases getting an idea of what it does and how to use it is a major challenge. Remember some things are effects and need an audio in, not instruments.






Hmm, I don't think I'm going to be looking to find any more challenges just yet. I doubt I'll live long enough to figure it all out as it is.
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/20 17:14:27 (permalink)
paulo
 
 
Yeah, I figured that much out now, but that only seems to work for me when in record mode, which is not much help when I'm just trying to audition things and see what the presets are etc before committing to anything 

I don't need to be in record mode to audition the instruments/patches in Reaktor.

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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/20 19:59:43 (permalink)
rsinger
paulo
 
 
Yeah, I figured that much out now, but that only seems to work for me when in record mode, which is not much help when I'm just trying to audition things and see what the presets are etc before committing to anything
 

I don't need to be in record mode to audition the instruments/patches in Reaktor.




OK, well that's not what's happening here.
 
Here's my scenario.......
 
New project>insert synth>Reaktor 6>from factory library/Sequenced synthesizers select Blue Matrix> select first preset within that (Jam Jarre) then press play in sonar......
 
Playback/Synth very briefly starts and then stops again. That's all. Nothing else happens. I presume because as far as sonar is concerned, there are no tracks to play.
 
Select record mode for the Reaktor track, start via record button and then it plays as you might expect, but to my simple mind how am I supposed to know what I want to record when I haven't yet been able to hear what the synth is going to do without starting the recording process ?
 
This is the only way I can get BM to make a sound. RTFM refers only to "Start the system clock and step through the presets!" I'm obviously missing the point.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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shawker
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 00:36:13 (permalink)
To play clock based ensembles in Sonar you need a clip on the Reaktor midi track. Create a midi clip with 1 short note and stretch it out as long as you need.  Don't insert Reaktor as a simple instrument track, make sure you have an audio and midi track.  Also save the midi clip to the browser so you can reuse it for other projects.  As you said, Sonar needs something to play so this is it.
If you had something else like audio drum loops in the project, the above wouldn't be needed, Sonar would play the drum loops and Reaktor would play along in sync. 
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 08:58:35 (permalink)
shawker
To play clock based ensembles in Sonar you need a clip on the Reaktor midi track. Create a midi clip with 1 short note and stretch it out as long as you need.  Don't insert Reaktor as a simple instrument track, make sure you have an audio and midi track.  Also save the midi clip to the browser so you can reuse it for other projects.  As you said, Sonar needs something to play so this is it.
If you had something else like audio drum loops in the project, the above wouldn't be needed, Sonar would play the drum loops and Reaktor would play along in sync. 




Thanks.
 
I figured that much out when fiddling with it yesterday. Poor design IMO.
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yorolpal
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 14:59:06 (permalink)
Reaktor gives me a headache...always has.  But there are loads of great premade presets by other folks that are available.  But learning how to program Reaktor is a bit like building a perpetual motion machine.  Just when you think you've got it...you don't.
 

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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 15:07:35 (permalink)
paulo
Poor design IMO.


Perhaps Reaktor is the wrong tool for what you are trying to do?

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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 15:38:55 (permalink)
synkrotron
paulo
Poor design IMO.


Perhaps Reaktor is the wrong tool for what you are trying to do?



I'm not trying to do anything other than hear the sounds that it makes. If I can't do that one simple thing without putting a dummy clip in place to trick it into actually playing something, then I'd say that was a poor design.
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paulo
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 15:43:51 (permalink)
yorolpal
Reaktor gives me a headache...always has.  But there are loads of great premade presets by other folks that are available.  But learning how to program Reaktor is a bit like building a perpetual motion machine.  Just when you think you've got it...you don't.
 




I haven't got anywhere near learning to program it, maybe never will, just trying to hear what's already there. No reason why that shouldn't be just as straightforward as with other synths IMO.
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 16:26:18 (permalink)
paulo
synkrotron
paulo
Poor design IMO.


Perhaps Reaktor is the wrong tool for what you are trying to do?



I'm not trying to do anything other than hear the sounds that it makes. If I can't do that one simple thing without putting a dummy clip in place to trick it into actually playing something, then I'd say that was a poor design.


Why don't you use the standalone version for this exploration?  If you like what you hear, take the next step and learn how to use it in Sonar.  I've been using Reaktor in Sonar for many years and it works fine, tho it has a few quirks and challenges.
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 16:32:39 (permalink)
paulo
yorolpal
Reaktor gives me a headache...always has.  But there are loads of great premade presets by other folks that are available.  But learning how to program Reaktor is a bit like building a perpetual motion machine.  Just when you think you've got it...you don't.
 




I haven't got anywhere near learning to program it, maybe never will, just trying to hear what's already there. No reason why that shouldn't be just as straightforward as with other synths IMO.


Reaktor isn't a synth, it is a platform for building synths, grooveboxes, effects, etc.  This power comes with a price, it's a bit more complicated than just loading something like Massive or Rapture into a project.
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 16:36:52 (permalink)
Like I said... Wrong tool...

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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 17:04:31 (permalink)
shawker
paulo
synkrotron
paulo
Poor design IMO.


Perhaps Reaktor is the wrong tool for what you are trying to do?



I'm not trying to do anything other than hear the sounds that it makes. If I can't do that one simple thing without putting a dummy clip in place to trick it into actually playing something, then I'd say that was a poor design.


Why don't you use the standalone version for this exploration?  If you like what you hear, take the next step and learn how to use it in Sonar.  I've been using Reaktor in Sonar for many years and it works fine, tho it has a few quirks and challenges.




Yes I could do that, but it just seems more logical to me to open it within a sonar project. That way if inspiration strikes all I have to do is select record on my track and I'm off rather than having to save whatever tweaks I might have made, close  the standalone, open sonar, start new project, insert reaktor, load the ens, find the patch ..........
 
 
 
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paulo
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 17:09:15 (permalink)
shawker
 
Reaktor isn't a synth, it is a platform for building synths, grooveboxes, effects, etc.  This power comes with a price, it's a bit more complicated than just loading something like Massive or Rapture into a project.




I fully expect a learning curve when it comes to synth building,  but there are presets within the synths or whatever you want to call them that are already there. It shouldn't require a fudge just to access those IMO. Surely the whole point of presets is that they are ready to go.
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paulo
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 17:20:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2017/08/22 18:51:02
synkrotron
Like I said... Wrong tool...



Reaktor is the wrong tool for auditioning the sounds/patches/presets/whatever you want to call them that are supplied with Reaktor?
 
Riiiiiiight........... Ooookaaaay then............
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/22 18:50:23 (permalink)
paulo
Reaktor is the wrong tool for auditioning the sounds/patches/presets/whatever you want to call them that are supplied with Reaktor?



I personally don't have a problem doing any of the above. Methods already stated here work fine.
 
I think you need to give it time and get used to its perceived idiosyncrasies. It is a massive VST instrument that can be used in so many different ways.
 
cheers
 
andy
 

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Re: Reaktor 6....WTF?? 2017/08/28 16:44:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2017/08/28 17:49:03
I just fired up Blue Matrix, selected the first preset and hit play in Sonar. Playback commenced and sustained until I hit stop. So not sure what's going on at your end to make playback stop after a few seconds. 
 
Reaktor confuses pretty much everyone until they sit down and learn the basics. The most important thing to remember is that it is so much more than a normal "plug and play" synth, so you will encounter things that will frustrate or baffle you until you know what's going on. 
 
The most common source of confusion is what the different parts of Reaktor are and what they're not. Reaktor is comprised of various building blocks which exist on different hierarchies of function and which you can wire together to make functional instruments or effects. A complete "ready to play" instrument or effect is called an ensemble. What this means is that various building blocks have been wired together, ready to accept audio or MIDI as inputs (if necessary), and have been wired to audio outputs so you can hear the sound. So just bear in mind that for something to be ready to play in Reaktor, it has to be an ensemble. That ensemble might take the form of a synth, or a sequencer connected to a synth, or an effect unit connected to a drum machine. As long as it's hooked up to the audio outputs and makes a sound, it's an ensemble. Ensembles have the ".ens" extension. 
 
"Instruments" on the other hand are on the next level down on the hierarchy. They're individual building blocks that you can hook up into an ensemble. So an instrument could be a synth, a drum machine, an effect or a sampler. It's different from an ensemble in that it's not hooked up to anything - you have to make those connections yourself. Often it's as simple as just connecting its outputs to Reaktor's audio output, but obviously you can chain things together to build much more complex ensembles. 
 
This confusion with the word "instrument" is what trips up most people. The word suggests something that is immediately playable, and you wouldn't necessarily associate it with something like an effect. 
 
Instruments in Reaktor fall into a number of categories. First you have synths, which obviously take a MIDI input and generate a sound. Then you have effects, which input and output audio and are self explanatory. There are drum machines and sequencers, which make a sound as soon as you hit play in your DAW (or hit play in Reaktor in the standalone version). The sequencers usually have some kind of method of starting and stopping the sound, through either automation or through a gated mode in which a MIDI note is required to play a particular pattern. Or you can trigger the different drums via MIDI. All of the factory ensembles have instructions in the manual which should tell you how to control playback. Then you have things like noise generators, which don't require a MIDI input but generate sound constantly until you tell them to shut up. Again, this is usually easily done through automation (even if you end up automating Sonar's mute button). There are also instruments which generate a MIDI output that you can route to other Reaktor instruments or even to an external VST. 
 
Then of course you have Blocks, which are a whole new level of modular synthesis in Reaktor and are the most amazing thing to happen to it in years. 
 
It's also worth learning about how snapshots work - they're like presets but work a little differently and are highly flexible. For example, imagine you chain together a sequencer, a synth and an effect in Reaktor. Each of those 3 instruments might have their own internal snapshots. But you can also make global snapshots, which record the state of the entire ensemble. So you could select a different snapshot from each instrument and then save that overall configuration as a global snapshot. It's essential to learn about how snapshots work in Reaktor because they can be confusing. 
 
Also, take a look at the browser. You have "Player" and "Files" tabs. The Player tab shows you complete ensembles that are ready to use. The "Files" tab is more in depth and shows you all of the components of Reaktor, from complete ensembles all the way down to the core building blocks like oscillators and math units. If you want to keep things simple then just stick to the "Player" tab. 
 
But in general, rest assured that every new Reaktor owner goes through some initial frustration of loading something which looks like it should immediately make a sound but in fact doesn't. It's totally worth taking a basic course (on Groove3 for instance) and learning how to do things like connect instruments into ensembles. It will clear everything up for you. 

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#29
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