Steve_Karl
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Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
I don't suppose there is NOT currently a way to have SPLAT search back specific custom keyswitch notes in a specific range, for instance C0 through D1
but wouldn't it be a nice idea to have a place to input specific custom search back for KS notes?
And also on a per channel basis?
Maybe the KS notes could be somehow linked to an unused controller # or those outer odd things I never have used like RPN and NRPN?
hummmmm ....
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bitflipper
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/09/29 13:50:59
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What a good idea! It could be implemented as "find prev" and "find next" options added to the context menu in the PRV.
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/09/29 14:44:59
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Not sure I understand how you're seeing it but that's ok.
I think you're talking about how to make it work if it were an addition to the software?
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An other thought ... there is still a program change search back that works in SPLAT?
I haven't used program changes since cwpa9 so I'm not sure.
Maybe it could be tied to that function in some way.
That was always (obviously) on a per channel basis.
Giving the PGC the ability to send a note number would get it done quite easily.
Is it possible that is already do able?
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Oooo ... what about using banks in Kontakt? I belive bank numbers are tied to the ancient Midi PGC thing in some way.
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Anyway... more detail ...
... I'm suggesting (or looking for) a way to have SPLAT automatically seach back the same way it does controllers.
Reason is, when I'm jumping around in a piece I'm working on that uses KS and have played a passage that uses C0 and then jump to the middle of a passage that uses C#0 without playing over the KS note at the front of that passage the instrument will play the C0 articulation as opposed to the correct one for that passage, 'because' there is no search back in the same way controllers like CC07 or CC11 will get a search back.
I wonder if there's a way to assign notes to be triggered by unused CC numbers.
There are enough unused midi CC to cover an octave of notes.
Problem might arise that one KS instrument might have different KS notes than an other so that's why I think about having it on a 'per track' basis.
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azslow3
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/09/29 15:11:43
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Steve_Karl
Problem might arise that one KS instrument might have different KS notes than an other so that's why I think about having it on a 'per track' basis.
So per track "Search back events..." dialog, with precise selection possibility (key ranges, CC ranges, etc.) User friendly approach will be to automatically detect that when possible. So may be "named sets", with a possibility to attach them to VSTi, or even create them, including on the fly, when possible (NKS?). Dreams  Steve_Karl
I wonder if there's a way to assign notes to be triggered by unused CC numbers.
There are enough unused midi CC to cover an octave of notes.
Problem might arise that one KS instrument might have different KS notes than an other so that's why I think about having it on a 'per track' basis.
Such workaround will involve at least 2 steps: 1) after the track is recorded, convert required notes to CCs (permanently! otherwise CC search back will not work) 2) enable MFX processor which convert CCs back to notes in "real time" Yes, possible. But it will work only if: 1) CC search back is really working well now (I have not checked for a while) 2) searched back CCs are sent throw MFXes (should be, but hard to be sure without checking)
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/09/29 16:04:07
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Yea ... too complicated for me.
I think getting Program Change to have a category for note numbers would be the ideal way.
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wst3
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/09/29 17:57:18
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This would be awesome!
Right now I use a couple of scripts to convert Key Switches to CCs on the way in and then CCs back to Key Switches on the way out. It works, but it is a kludge. More libraries now support CCs for articulation changes, so it is becoming a little less of an issue, but YES to this FR!!!
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/09/29 19:21:00
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I've just been dropping the KS notes in the obvious places when I'm jumping around.
A bit time consuming but bullet proof.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/09/30 08:34:55
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I would love Sonar to work with NKS so colours on the PRV corresponded to the colours on my keyboard for keyswitches, and have the ability to look back.
Pipe dream probably but where key switches are defined by a drum map it should be possible to implement something to better visualise and implement key switching.
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bitflipper
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/09/30 12:08:41
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Yes, my mind immediately went to a manual search rather than the automatic search-back feature you were talking about. That's because it would be much easier to implement and still help mitigate the issue of starting playback after a keyswitch event and having the wrong articulation.
The problem with search-back on a note value is that there is no way for SONAR to distinguish between keyswitches and regular notes. You'd have to specify a note range for the search-back. That setting would be both instrument-specific AND patch-specific. Not an easy thing to implement, especially if the instrument has more than one contiguous range of keyswitches.
And it would be prone to user error, since it would up to the user to inform SONAR where they are. If you were to substitute a different library or even a different patch, you'd have to then redefine the keyswitch regions.
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/09/30 13:53:37
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bitflipper
Yes, my mind immediately went to a manual search rather than the automatic search-back feature you were talking about. That's because it would be much easier to implement and still help mitigate the issue of starting playback after a keyswitch event and having the wrong articulation.
The problem with search-back on a note value is that there is no way for SONAR to distinguish between keyswitches and regular notes. You'd have to specify a note range for the search-back. That setting would be both instrument-specific AND patch-specific. Not an easy thing to implement, especially if the instrument has more than one contiguous range of keyswitches.
And it would be prone to user error, since it would up to the user to inform SONAR where they are. If you were to substitute a different library or even a different patch, you'd have to then redefine the keyswitch regions.
Yes. Redifine for each instrument ... maybe similar to the way Sonar maps for specific keyboards with instrument definitions and be able to load any from that (continual work in progress) collected library of KS maps onto an individual track. Damn the user errors. If you can't figure it out then shame on you. :-) The way I find the KS notes now is I know the general range for that instrument and just collapse the PRV and look in that range and there they are. Not that complicated.
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KAV
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/09/30 19:00:29
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☄ Helpfulby Steve_Karl 2017/10/02 16:15:16
The new(ish) MIDI note chase feature will find and play the notes that are sustained at the point where the playback starts. So if you just increase the duration of keyswitch notes so that each one extends all the way up to the next keyswitch, wouldn't the correct (currently sustained) keyswitch note be triggered regardless of where the playback is started?
A generalized "Expression Map" type feature would be great to have, though.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/09/30 21:11:44
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NKS works dynamically, so if there is a patch change, and that patch change alters key switch assignments its communicated back to NKS and the keyboard, so its not inconceivable that such information could be passed between the instrument and the DAW, but it would require industry wide standardisation.
With AAS, Arturia, XILS labs, Orange Tree, Heavyocity and others joining NI NKS is gaining momentum.
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/10/01 13:53:28
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KAV
The new(ish) MIDI note chase feature will find and play the notes that are sustained at the point where the playback starts. So if you just increase the duration of keyswitch notes so that each one extends all the way up to the next keyswitch, wouldn't the correct (currently sustained) keyswitch note be triggered regardless of where the playback is started?
A generalized "Expression Map" type feature would be great to have, though.
Interesting thought on length. That would also make them really easy to spot visually.
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/10/01 13:57:41
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Glyn Barnes
NKS works dynamically, so if there is a patch change, and that patch change alters key switch assignments its communicated back to NKS and the keyboard, so its not inconceivable that such information could be passed between the instrument and the DAW, but it would require industry wide standardisation.
With AAS, Arturia, XILS labs, Orange Tree, Heavyocity and others joining NI NKS is gaining momentum.
Yea. That's kinda nice but has the aroma of corporate geed eminating from it like a pile of dead fish. It'll never be applicable to smaller companies that can't afford to buy into the big scheeme and also not be available to us that are working with and fixing up older libraries that work very well for our purposes and sometimes even better than anything available that is NI approved.
post edited by Steve_Karl - 2017/10/01 14:20:36
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wst3
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Re: Seach back controllers ... but how about search back custom KS notes?
2017/10/01 15:05:17
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KAV
The new(ish) MIDI note chase feature will find and play the notes that are sustained at the point where the playback starts. So if you just increase the duration of keyswitch notes so that each one extends all the way up to the next keyswitch, wouldn't the correct (currently sustained) keyswitch note be triggered regardless of where the playback is started?
A generalized "Expression Map" type feature would be great to have, though.
I'd love an Expression Map feature, but I imagine there are some hurdles<G>. I've tried dozens of solutions, and as I mentioned earlier, these days I jump through hoops with scripts that translate back and forth between KS and CC. It works, but it is a challenge to use. I used to use a separate MIDI track, and that worked reasonably well for everything but chasing events. I think I need to spend some time with the idea of making the KS long enough to work with MIDI Note Chase. Thanks so much for that!!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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