space_cowboy
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Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
I would think Sonar would be way up there with Cubase and Logic (excluding Pro Tools for now). However I find when I call tech support for almost any product trying to work with Sonar, I get the "I am not familiar with the Sonar routing..." or similar answer. I got this response from UA and Dangerous Music over the last few weeks as I was trying to optimize my D-Box Apollo combo and had an issue (what turned out to be stupid on my behalf). If Sonar is indeed in a respectable position, Gibson needs to reach out to the various DAW support plugins and external hardware. If Sonar is not in a respectable position, Gibson should try to rectify that somehow.
Some people call me Maurice SPLAT Pro lifetime, ADK 6 core 3.6Ghz with 32 GB RAM, SSD 1TB system drive, 3 3TB regular drives for samples, recordings and misc. Behringer X Touch, UAD Apollo Quad. 2 UAD2 Quads PCI (i think - inside the box whatever that is), Console 1. More guitars (40??) and synths (hard and soft) than talent. Zendrum!!!
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dlesaux
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 12:35:00
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Market share data will be hard to come by. I do see plugin websites routinely list Sonar as one of the DAWs used to test compatibility though. For whatever reason, Pro Tools continues to be the baseline DAW in most pro studios despite its shortcomings and clunky interface. There was a Pro Tools article a few months ago in Sound On Sound about the user's top ten wish list. Sonar had all of those features deployed already!
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THambrecht
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 12:53:34
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We already had people in the house who were astonished because SONAR could do more then ProTools and Logic. And they also telled us, that the Apple computer is also crashing down once a day. We have 800 clients per year. Some clients are also commercially working with Magix Samplitude Pro X3. And Samplitude Pro is very rare listed. And Cubase has in germany the image of amateur recording.
We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ... 4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ... (Germany) http://www.hambrecht.de
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bitflipper
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 13:11:05
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Most DAW vendors other than Apple and Avid are privately-held companies and therefore not required to release such information, and they don't. Even the companies that are required to make numbers public don't reveal the size of their install base, only the dollar amounts of their revenue. For Apple and Avid, DAW sales are a tiny sliver of their income that might warrant a single line item on their annual reports. Avid, for example, just says that DAW and workstation sales account for about $72 million a year. Of course, online polls exist, but they're pretty useless.
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rscain
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 13:12:54
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chuckebaby
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 13:27:19
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Cakewalk has worked with a few high market company's like Overloud, Melodyne, VocAlign. I think something that is overlooked is the work it has done with Microsoft and we are seeing the trickle down effect in new features such as WASAPI, pen, exc support.
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Vas
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 14:00:46
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Not sure if this is relevant but Image LIne claims that FL Studio gets 30,000 downloads per day. That's eleven million downloads per year! I suppose most are demos?
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THambrecht
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 14:13:53
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In german recording studios you are laughed when you use a computer with Windows. They say only with a MAC you can make professional music. Windows is only for amateuer (they say!) This is because Apple had the first computers and they came at first into the recording studios. So a lot of german recording studios use MAC. They don't use SONAR because it doesnt run with OSX.
We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ... 4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ... (Germany) http://www.hambrecht.de
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AT
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 14:21:30
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I often get "you don't use Apple?" Musicians, visual artists, writers etc. I'll often reply, "I don't want to pay double for Apple on a PC." The simple fact is most music professionals use Apple hardware, and Avid is just about exclusively Mac. If 70-80% of your customer base is on one OS, most of the support will be biased to supporting that OS. And therefore the most convenient answer to those not using a Mac is to get one. In many ways Fruity Loops and Cake are in the same situation. FL Studio, going way back, was the most numerous DAW around since every kid in the world w/ a pc downloaded it for free or cheap (one famous story that isn't apocryphal is FLS releasing an update that locked your data on a hack; there were people all over the website asking why they couldn't access their songs ;-) SONAR is probably still the most popular DAW for people with who had a PC (when those were expensive) who also play guitar, or tuba and want to get into recording their instrument of choice w/o overpaying for a superfluous Apple computer. Which is why Cake needs to jump into the IOS market and grab share from there. If you get familiar w/ the Cake name for your IOS fun, you are more likely to get SONAR for your PC. And in a couple of years tablets will be fast enough to do your music work, and most of the market will be there, not on a laptap.
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THambrecht
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 14:35:21
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AT ... and Avid is just about exclusively Mac.
ProTools is Mac AND Windows. Cakewalk had a problem to translate their Windows code to OSX. I think Avid writes their code first in OSX and translate it to Windows. Cakewalk should rewrite the full code in OSX, but this takes a lot of years.
We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ... 4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ... (Germany) http://www.hambrecht.de
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space_cowboy
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 17:24:59
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Maybe I am foolish, but I have a hard time considering Fruity Loops and Reason in the same category as Cubase, Logic and Sonar. (and Studio One, Bitwig, MOTU, Reefer...). If I get rid of the high end of Pro Tools which requires tons of external hardware, and consider PT LE as not really in the same category as Cubase, Logic, Sonar.... (given away free with certain M-Audio stuff), and get rid of FL and Reason, so that I am comparing "High End DAWs that can act like a linear tape recorder plus some..." That is what I am trying to figure. And Bit is right, privately owned companies are very tight with market share data. In my experience, if you took 4 public companies all making a similar product, you will find that if you add up their views of their market shares, it is well over 100%!!! I am just tired of hearing "we can't help you if you use Sonar" so often. Thanks
Some people call me Maurice SPLAT Pro lifetime, ADK 6 core 3.6Ghz with 32 GB RAM, SSD 1TB system drive, 3 3TB regular drives for samples, recordings and misc. Behringer X Touch, UAD Apollo Quad. 2 UAD2 Quads PCI (i think - inside the box whatever that is), Console 1. More guitars (40??) and synths (hard and soft) than talent. Zendrum!!!
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Brian Walton
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 17:38:52
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Sonar is the only DAW I actually really care about. However, that being said, I'd be truly shocked if they beat out any of these in sales: Fruity Loops Ableton Live ProTools Logic Studio One If they even break the top 5 in sales, I'd be surprised. This has nothing to do with how great the product is though.
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DrLumen
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 17:42:25
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I have wondered about how, or if, Cakewalk approaches a 3rd party vendor about supporting Sonar. Does Cakewalk just sit back and wait to be approached by the 3rd parties for SDK's or API's and the like? Or, does Cakewalk go out and beat the bushes trying to get 3rd party support? In this instance it is Cakewalk but it applies to many other software makers.
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Anderton
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 18:24:30
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As I've said before, this is a very, very small industry. No company has the time to test their products with all DAWs. The testing for, say, plug-ins is the responsibility of the third party...a plug-in company needs to deal with testing on only a limited number of DAWs. A DAW manufacturer can't test a DAW with all available plug-ins. Companies support the DAWs used by the majority of their base. A cross-platform application almost by definition will have more users than a single-platform application. That said, I've known several manufacturers who test with SONAR but don't officially support it. The difference is that if they say they support a DAW, then they need to field support questions from anyone who uses that DAW. It seems any user base is generally unhappy with support, so companies have no desire to increase the number of people who are eligible for support. This is also why some programs work just fine with an older operating system, but a company will say they don't support it.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 19:09:30
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space_cowboy
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 19:35:11
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Anderton As I've said before, this is a very, very small industry. No company has the time to test their products with all DAWs. The testing for, say, plug-ins is the responsibility of the third party...a plug-in company needs to deal with testing on only a limited number of DAWs. A DAW manufacturer can't test a DAW with all available plug-ins. Companies support the DAWs used by the majority of their base. A cross-platform application almost by definition will have more users than a single-platform application. That said, I've known several manufacturers who test with SONAR but don't officially support it. The difference is that if they say they support a DAW, then they need to field support questions from anyone who uses that DAW. It seems any user base is generally unhappy with support, so companies have no desire to increase the number of people who are eligible for support. This is also why some programs work just fine with an older operating system, but a company will say they don't support it.
Craig I have seen $200MM several times as estimate of US and $700MM globally. I understand your comment about "every hardware manufacturer cannot test with every software provider..." or however you said it. But is this an issue where - like with Softube Console 1 - Sonar and Presonus were up and working day 1 so there was some major effort on the Cake part, and things like UA and Dangerous Music never had a formal outreach from Cake? Or is it different? I would assume the market positions are something like (excluding PT, FL and Reason and the low end stuff like Garbage Band) 1 Cubase 2 Logic (it is so cheap now that apple owns it) 3 Live 4 Sonar??? Something like that. Back to market size... While $700MM globally is certainly not biotech, semiconductor or automobiles, it is not terrible. I have worked for the last nearly 30 years in finance with market research always being a big part of my job. I have seen $100MM Market Cap stocks in industries where the entire market was maybe $100MM and there were 3-4 competitors. The good thing about software is the variable costs should be low, so high volumes means more cash flow to cover the fixed costs (R&D/Programmers and Marketing I assume in a DAW manufacturer). In other words, if Sonar is doing $70MM/year (10% of that global market share - just an uneducated guess), it could be a very profitable operation! And it could afford an outreach. I have used Cubase and do not see much difference between Sonar and Cubase. I went with Sonar (or Cakewalk back then) because tech support was better (in the 90s-early 2000s, Cubase Tech Support didn't exist at all!)I currently own Studio 1 and while I like it, i am so much more familiar with Sonar. Used to have Reason before all the other plugins were available from the zillions of manufacturers out there. Never had FL except on my iPad. Didn't care for it. And I have downloaded Reaper (dont care for) and Live (uh - wtf is this? I want a virtual tape deck!). My point is I have tried pretty much everything out there. I love Sonar. I hate the lack of BROAD 3rd party support. I am wondering if this is something that through Gibson they can resolve. I Pray they move the brand forward and don't Opcode it!
Some people call me Maurice SPLAT Pro lifetime, ADK 6 core 3.6Ghz with 32 GB RAM, SSD 1TB system drive, 3 3TB regular drives for samples, recordings and misc. Behringer X Touch, UAD Apollo Quad. 2 UAD2 Quads PCI (i think - inside the box whatever that is), Console 1. More guitars (40??) and synths (hard and soft) than talent. Zendrum!!!
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mettelus
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 20:58:37
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pwalpwal
bitflipper install base
you can find some interesting stats about steam versions of software, but without greater context they're not very informative e.g., https://steamdb.info/app/380080/graphs/
Actually, you can glean some interesting info from that page. Simultaneous user count (42 was the peak at 9 months ago?), and some other things. Is that "Prices" tab accurate that reflects a massive price hike at the end of the Lifetime update offer (I am not sure what the Steam version equates to TBH)?
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Anderton
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/03 21:48:34
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Getting meaningful market share numbers is just about impossible because so much software is sold direct. Furthermore when someone buys an interface it probably has a lite version of a DAW. That could be counted as part of market share even though no one uses it. Most estimates of "music software" include virtual instruments, DAWs, sample libraries, notation programs, DJ software, etc. According to Music Trades, in the US the total retail value of recording/sequencing software in 2016 was $130MM. Compare that to $200MM in 2008; there's been a linear slide down since then. According to the December 2016 report from Music Trades on the leading 225 global music industry suppliers, there aren't breakdowns for software vs. hardware - e.g., you can find out what PreSonus makes ($49 MM), but not specifically what Studio One brings in. I assume it's a relatively small part of that compared to their hardware. You need to look at the bottom of the list to find the music companies...MOTU at $9MM (again, we don't know how much of that is DP and how much is interfaces), Waves at $12MM, IK at $16MM, Universal Audio at $23MM although I assume much of that is their hardware, etc.), and next is Ableton - one of the Big Guys at $25MM. The next biggest other than Avid (although there's no way to know how much of their $123MM is Pro Tools) is Native Instruments - a real anomaly at $74MM.
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soens
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Re: Does anyone have good market share data on the various DAWs?
2017/10/04 21:44:46
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Everyone can share the market. But data has shown few people actually share their DAWs... especially where the EULA forbids it. OTOH, there's no way to know how much data is being shared between DAWs as it's an ongoing thing. But I'm probably missing the point.
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