Helpful ReplyNew Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help

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Nyghtfall4
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/07 22:53:47 (permalink)
I wish Cakewalk's forums allowed image attachments or linking for newbies.  It's quite difficult asking for help without being able to show you what I'm doing.
 
I found a 13-minute video on YouTube, by an English gent named Karl Rose, titled "Sonar X1 MIDI for Beginners".  I followed his narration to the letter, adapting it for my setup.  He configured a MIDI track to record input from his keyboard and output it to the TTS-1.  Upon realizing there was no sound when he played his keyboard, he configured an Audio track to receive input from the TTS-1.  At 9:20 in the video, he tests the completed track setup and the TTS-1 sounds crystal clear, but I'm still not hearing anything from SONAR when I play a few notes.  I can see that both tracks are receiving a signal from my keyboard but I can't hear anything while performing.  I've tried enabling the Input Echo on the MIDI track but still can't hear anything.
 
Since I can't post screenshots yet, I'll write out what my current setup looks like after following Karl's video:
 
Track 1: Audio
 
Input = Cakewalk TTS-1 1 Output 1: Sterio
Output - Master
 
Track 2: MIDI
 
Input =  Digital Keyboard-1 - Omni (My Yamaha)
Output = Cakewalk TTS-1 1
Channel = 1: Cakewalk TTS-1
Bank = 15488-Preset Normal 0
Patch = Paino 1
 
One thing I found particularly interesting is that, when he played his keyboard, his Audio track's input meter was the only one acknowledging a signal.  When I play mine, both my MIDI and Audio tracks register a signal.  I don't know if that means anything or has to do with the version of SONAR he's using or what.  All I know is that I am really confused right now, and have no idea what I'm doing wrong
#31
scook
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/07 23:18:10 (permalink)
The Master bus should have its output set to your hardware. With the exception of MME driver mode (I believe you decided to use one of the WASAPI modes which is OK for Win10) review the hardware setup instructions in my post #25.
 
Were you able to complete tutorial #4?
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Cactus Music
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/07 23:56:20 (permalink)
You do not need to insert an audio track unless your recording audio.
When you insert a soft synth there will be an audio track placed with the synth in the track view. 

 
In this view you will see that tracks 1 thru 6 are audio 
Track 7 is a midi track I'll set the input for my keyboards and it's output to TTS_1 which is track 8. 
When I insert a soft synth using the browser shown to the right, I'll chose "First synth output". You can also use a simple
instrument track but I like to keep my midi tracks on there own. 
 


 
The TTS-1 track 8 will have it's output to my Master bus which then goes to my audio interface, you can see in the picture this is my us1641. 
 
You can test if the TTS_1 and many soft synth are output correctly by opening their GUI interfce and triggering the sounds. 
 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2017/10/08 00:33:57

Johnny V  
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 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#33
Cactus Music
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/08 00:48:19 (permalink)

 
Weird, I couldn't delete the extra screen shot in my post above? 
 
Right click on the image and Open in new tab to see full screen. You'll be able to post picture , just go to the coffee house and harass Bapu for 30 posts.. 
 
Anyhow here's a full screen shot with Splat with the TTS-1 and a new midi track 11 all set to record,, notice the input echo is on.
You can also see I have set up the track inspector with dialog for 1ckwlkTTS-1 = channel 1  .
below dialog  15488prsNO shows I have bank 0
and then below dialog  shows  Piano 1 as the patch.
Down below in /out- It doesn't show a proper input because this is from my office computer and I don't have one plugged in. on your it will show your controller.  Then below that it shows the TTS-1 as output. 
 
 
 

Johnny V  
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Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#34
Nyghtfall4
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/08 02:28:11 (permalink)
This is so... needlessly... complicated... and I've got a headache...
 
scook
Were you able to complete tutorial #4?

 
Yes... I can add Audio, Instrument, and MIDI tracks, and record them just fine, I just can't hear squat while recording or while testing the track settings.
 
scook
The Master bus should have its output set to your hardware.

 
What do you mean by "Master bus", and where is it?
 
Cactus MusicYou do not need to insert an audio track unless your recording audio.

 
If I don't insert an audio track, SONAR tells me there's no audio data to export...
 
Cactus MusicWhen you insert a soft synth there will be an audio track placed with the synth in the track view.

 
And where is this audio track?
 
Cactus MusicYou can also see I have set up the track inspector with dialog for 1ckwlkTTS-1 = channel 1.

 
What I'm seeing looks like Greek to me, and I can't make heads or tails of it...
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Larry Jones
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/08 03:35:41 (permalink)
OK, I really want you to have some success at this, and I am all about the cheap shortcuts, so with that in mind here's a suggestion. This is based on SONAR Platinum but it should work in Artist and Professional. If you are using an older version you might be able to adapt this:
  • Open SONAR
  • In the Start Menu select "New Project"
  • Choose the template called "Showcase - Keys.cwt"
  • In the resulting dialog just click "OK"
SONAR will open a project full of what they call "Simple Instrument Tracks.*" Track One is piano. Its input echo button is already set to "on." Play your controller, and you should hear piano. There should be a "Virtual Controller" on your screen, too, but if your hardware controller works, just close the virtual one. Now click the echo button on a different track. You should hear a different instrument. I assume all the instruments are coming from the TTS1. Somebody can correct me.
 
I call this a cheap shortcut because the template does all the work for you. And all the inputs and outputs should be correct, and there will be a Master bus (to see that, click the tiny little button below the control pane, revealing the Master bus, and also the metronome and preview busses). If this works for you, play for a while and enjoy yourself. You can figure out why it works tomorrow after your headache goes away.
 
*A "simple instrument track" is just a MIDI track combined with an invisible audio track. Later you can right click on a simple instrument track and select "Split Instrument Track" to see the associated audio track and sort out inputs and outputs.

SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB  Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
#36
Nyghtfall4
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/08 03:49:44 (permalink)
Larry Jones
OK, I really want you to have some success at this...

 
So would I... otherwise, I've blown $100 for nothing...
 
Larry JonesThis is based on SONAR Platinum but it should work in Artist and Professional. If you are using an older version you might be able to adapt this:
  • Open SONAR
  • In the Start Menu select "New Project"
  • Choose the template called "Showcase - Keys.cwt"
  • In the resulting dialog just click "OK"

 
I'm using 23.8.0 Build 30 of SONAR Artist, and I have no "Showcase - Keys.cwt" option.  These are my available templates:
 
Basic
4-Track
16-Track
Empty Project
Guitar Amps
Vocals
#37
Cactus Music
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/08 04:02:30 (permalink)
OK Open TTS-1 GUI and do as I said and pre view the sounds by clicking where my red arrow is pointing. If you don't hear anything then we go from there. 
 
There might not be  a master buss depending on how you opened the project. 
The Basic template comes with a Master buss. Go to file -New and choose that. 
Now insert the TTS-1 and select First Instrument output I show my screen shot. 

 
It will now look like this

 
When I do this track 2 automatically set itself to output to TTS-1 and input echo on
 
Now all you need to do is what you seemed to have figured out is set the input of track 2 to play from your keyboard.
AND MAKE SURE INPUT ECHO FOR TRACK 2 IS ON. 
 
You can test the TTS_1 as I explained above. If it's GUI didn't open after you inserted it, double click on the little Keyboard icon on the TTS-1on next to where the inspector shows Track 3 on the left.
 
Note the different icons for tracks.
Track 1 has a wave to designate it is for audio,
Track 2 has a Midi din jack to shoow this is a midi track,
and track 3 has the keyboard and the midi icon to show it is the soft synth audio output track.  
 
You don't need a master buss, you can send audio directly to your audio interface. But a master buss is the prefered way to manage the output of any DAW. You can see if your overloading, apply a limiter etc. 
 
Getting familiar with Sonars signal path and routing can be a little confusing at first but it is esential to learn this first before you start out. This is the same for all DAWs. Cubase took me hours to get a drum track to play. 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2017/10/08 15:59:23

Johnny V  
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Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#38
Larry Jones
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/08 04:53:53 (permalink)
Nyghtfall4 
I'm using 23.8.0 Build 30 of SONAR Artist, and I have no "Showcase - Keys.cwt" option.  These are my available templates:
 
Basic
4-Track
16-Track
Empty Project
Guitar Amps
Vocals


Sorry. It seemed like a good idea. Now I suggest you follow Johnny V (Cactus Music) step-by-step. I insert soft synths by going to Insert|Soft Synth|General MIDI|Cakewalk TTS-1. When the "Insert Soft Synth Options" dialog opens, see Johnny's graphic above. The only thing I'd add there is to check "Synth Properties Page" box, so you'll see the TTS-1 when it opens. If you do this and your controller makes no sound, try clicking the little eighth notes at the bottom of the channels on the TTS-1 and see if you hear anything.

SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB  Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
#39
DrLumen
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/08 07:47:02 (permalink)
Nyghtfall4
Larry Jones
OK, I really want you to have some success at this...

 
So would I... otherwise, I've blown $100 for nothing...
 
Larry JonesThis is based on SONAR Platinum but it should work in Artist and Professional. If you are using an older version you might be able to adapt this:
  • Open SONAR
  • In the Start Menu select "New Project"
  • Choose the template called "Showcase - Keys.cwt"
  • In the resulting dialog just click "OK"

 
I'm using 23.8.0 Build 30 of SONAR Artist, and I have no "Showcase - Keys.cwt" option.  These are my available templates:
 
Basic
4-Track
16-Track
Empty Project
Guitar Amps
Vocals




You haven't blown any money. It is just a config setting somewhere that is not right. It is just a matter of time before it is found. Kinda hard to find it when working blind.
 
It's ok to go into the coffee house and pester those threads to get your count up. CW might not like it but most of those are useless threads (freds) anyway.

-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

Sonar Platinum / Intel i7-4790K / AsRock Z97 / 32GB RAM / Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB / Behringer FCA610 / M-Audio Sport 2x4 / Win7 x64 Pro / WDC Black HDD's / EVO 850 SSD's / Alesis Q88 / Boss DS-330 / Korg nanoKontrol / Novation Launch Control / 14.5" Lava Lamp
#40
Zargg
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/08 10:29:07 (permalink)
Nyghtfall4
I wish Cakewalk's forums allowed image attachments or linking for newbies.  It's quite difficult asking for help without being able to show you what I'm doing.
 

A quick way to get your post count up, is to go to http://forum.cakewalk.com/Songs-f89.aspx
Listen and give feedback to some songs. It will increase your post count in a short time, without having to ask questions (that might be difficult to get right, without having an image to point to).
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#41
mudgel
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/08 12:21:33 (permalink)
Press Input Echo

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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#42
Cactus Music
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/08 16:21:40 (permalink)
Another thing I though of that's a good way for newbies to see how the TTS-1 works is to open a GM midi file. 
 
To set Sonar to automatically open with TTS-1 you need to go to Preferences/MIDI/ Devices and uncheck any output devices. APPLY. 
 
Here's a typical download site. Aviod the ones that require more than one click. 
http://www.midiworld.com/files/G/all/
 
http://www.midiworld.com/files/1045/     Grand Funk Railroad
 
I just downloaded GFR Closer to Home, takes 2 seconds.. midi files are small this one is bigger than normal because the song is long and uses lot of tracks. 86 kb. 
 
Once it has downloaded the icon should show as a Cakewalk associated file. If not set W10 to open this file with Sonar.. If so just double click and it should open Sonar and populate a project with 16 midi tracks and the TTS-1 and play exactly like the author intended. Which sometimes is real bad :) 
Now you can see how it all works and have fun changing sounds and inserting other soft synths to upgrade the sounds.
Example insert  SI drums( or Session drummer?)  and re assign track 10 to that 
Insert SI bass and re assign track 6 and on and on. 
I do a lot of this and when I'm done I'll have a very good version of the song. These files are a great starting point for a lot of top 40's songs. There are also a good way to explore midi and how to edit midi. There will be lots of mistakes and often the files need quantizing. I never use all the parts either, mute the crappy stuff. Or re play it myself. Someday I'll make a site with all my improved files on it. 
 
. Note there will be no master bus when you start a project this way. 
You can add one by dragging the Buss pane up from the very bottom edge and right clicking the buss pane, Insert stereo buss, name it Master, right click the Master Buss and select set as default.  now direct the output of the TTS to the master. 

Johnny V  
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3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#43
Cactus Music
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Re: New Musician - New SONAR User - Need MIDI Help 2017/10/08 17:11:10 (permalink)
Out of curiousity I clicked on Scooks link to tutorial 4. 
 
It is so outdated as to be next to useless. I see why newbies get confused. The screen shots are from 4? years ago and even things like.. open a Normal template... ?? What normal template. And then the instructions seem incomplete. 
I don't think many of us proceed the way described at all. I guess there's more than one way to do any given task but the instructions were almost hard for me to follow. 
And then the OP ends up watching a Video which was also based on a very different version. 
 
 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#44
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