rwandering
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Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
Greetings, I use Sonar Artist -- the most recent version -- and have been working on a couple of projects. I'm pretty new to recording. I have had a strange artifact that has occurred a few different times when I'm recording. It is intermittent, and I thought I had figured out the source (thinking it was bleed from monitors feedback into the microphone while recording). Anyway, this is a sort of a chirping sound that only occurs while I'm actually making sound. I have exported a small sample of the audio. I mention a chord name on the guitar and play the chord. My voice is being mic'ed with a condenser; the acoustic guitar is being picked up, but not directly mic'ed. The recording itself was just to record an early demo of a song I'm working on. Anyway, this has occurred when I am trying to track something "real", so I'm trying to figure this out. I'm hoping that somebody will hear it and know what the problem is. Any ideas? https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hvg1z5b7rxwt3m/Artifact-Track%202.mp3 Thanks in advance, Robert
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bitflipper
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/08 13:33:46
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No idea. It does ride the volume with the audio, though, so that's a clue. It suggests that it's electronic rather than mechanical (e.g. a bad cable, loose connection in the guitar pickup, or a loose element in the condenser). Do you have a gate on your mic, perhaps one built in to the audio interface? What type of interface are you using? Is there a mixer in front of it, or other preamp?
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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rwandering
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/08 14:43:12
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Thanks for the ideas. The signal chain is: - Studio Projects C1 microphone
- Hosa PDR-369 Patchbay
- ART PRO MPA-II Preamp
- Samon S-Patch Plus Patchbay
- MOTU AVB Ultralight (interface)
- Sonar Artist 2017.09
I can switch out some of this gear and eliminate patchbays, but what I really need to figure out is how to cause it to happen reliably. The intermittency makes the "swap out until it goes away" strategy challenging to say the least. There should be no guitar pickup involved; though I do leave a guitar plugged into a direct box, fed into the MOTU. Hypothetically string vibration from my voice could get into the MOTU (maybe)? But then that would imply some bleed across channels there. Also, I should point out that the MOTU has a mixer built in; I feed the mic back into the headphones for live monitoring -- not necessary with what I was recording -- but I didn't hear that artifact. This implies to me that it is either in the MOTU (downstream of the send back to the headphones) or actually in Sonar.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/08 17:34:24
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First thing I'd do is eliminate all those extra parts of the signal chain. Plug the mike directly into your interface. Not sure why you have the patch bays? Those are not normally put in a vocal mikes pathway and the gear all seems low end. I'll put even money on one of those being the issue. You need to post the sample on Sound click ,sound cloud or a music share site. Dropbox doesn't work,, it wants me to log on.
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rwandering
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/08 18:12:58
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Thanks for your input; I didn't realize one would have to login to Dropbox, so I have posted the sample here: https://soundcloud.com/user-839393163/artifact-track-2 Certainly the components are low end; the patch bays are to keep my studio office a bit cleaner. Removing these items from the signal path as a test certainly makes sense, though the intermittency of the problem makes it hard for any of that to be conclusive, of course without time. I likely won't have another choice, I suppose the simplest thing will be for me to go straight to the MOTU and see if the problem resurfaces and then at some point go from there. Thanks again.
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Tom B
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/08 21:49:19
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At first, I tried listening to the clip on studio monitors but couldn't really hear the artifacts. Using headphones, the low-level clicking/chirping noises can be heard in the background. Agree with others, it seems like something with the hardware. Edit: Removed my original paragraph. Can now hear the "chirps" the OP described.
post edited by Tom B - 2017/10/09 07:06:55
- Tom B. See the new Cakewalk by Bandlab Forum - Jan 2019.
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kellerpj
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/08 22:03:24
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Do you wear a wrist watch? It sounds like a recording of a wrist watch through a compressor. Just my first impression, Paul
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rwandering
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/08 23:08:58
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I wasn't wearing a watch, but that's an interesting idea. I wish it were happening all the time, then I think it would be easier to figure out. Thanks.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/09 00:37:01
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rwandering Thanks for your input; I didn't realize one would have to login to Dropbox, so I have posted the sample
Its all good here. I didn't have to log on to hear your sample. I would follow Johnny's idea by removing everything from the signal path and completing tests one by one after adding in gear as you go. Surely this wont be feasible to record like this but it will help you isolate the offending problem. Once that is established you can dissect more in to what the root of the problem is. Example: A bad cord, a poor connection, a bad tube in a mic pre amp (Or even a gate shuttering to quickly) possibly a power surge.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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rwandering
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/10 05:01:41
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Before removing anything from the signal path, I've been focusing on reproducing it first. Without changing anything at all (not even moving microphones or plugging in/out), I haven't been successful. The only thing that has definitively "changed" is a restart of the computer (and therefore Sonar and the drivers too) as well as a restart of the MOTU. I wish I'd had the wherewithal to try some things when it happened last and before shutting down for the night. I'm certain it will happen again as it has in the past; maybe at that point I'll be able to learn something more.
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mettelus
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/10 05:16:54
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Not sure if this has been mentioned, but one source of chirping is USB devices, wireless mice, etc., especially if they have a wireless receiver. Some receivers are sensitive to cell phones and will "chirp" when they send signals to check email, etc. Think about anything wireless in the vicinity (typically a few feet) of a receiver, as well as shutting off BT on the computer when in DAW mode.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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Leee
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/10 08:27:45
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I think mettelus' comments might be on the right track. I used to work as a technician in a distant education class, like a video conference between classrooms, (with remote control cameras in the classroom, along with desk mics on all the student desks. Whenever a student's cell phone would go off, even if it was on silent/vibrate, I would hear a similar chirping in the control room speakers. I'd have to interrupt the class and go around and make sure everyone's cellphone was not just on silent, but completely powered off.
So I would check things like that. Any wireless components, including USB wireless devices, cellphone, bluetooth devices. Even if it's not close to anything, even if it's in the same room, it could create that chirping noise.
Just another thing to check.
Lee Shapirowww.soundclick.com/leeshapiro Welcome BandLab and thank you for giving Cakewalk and Sonar a new lease on life.
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rwandering
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/16 01:19:44
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Just an update, for those interested. I wasn't able to reproduce the problem until today. I had been recording vocals for about an hour without a problem. This was using the same signal chain listed earlier in the thread. I then began recording a bass guitar direct into the MOTU interface. It worked without a problem for 20 minutes or so. I was recording, replaying, recording, etc. Then the artifact started again. - I recorded again, and it still occurred.
- Restarted SONAR, recorded again, still there.
- Restarted the computer, started SONAR, recorded again, still there.
- Finally, I restarted the MOTU and the problem went away.
Interestingly I would have expected it to be a driver / computer problem. I'm surprised it is the MOTU. It certainly wasn't the cables, the patch panels, or even the low-end gear (well, other than the MOTU). Now I have to decide if I replace my interface. I really like its browser-based mixing capabilities and ability to name the I/O ports.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/16 23:20:48
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Does not the Motu AVB use a wireless connection to talk to other devices like iPAds? If so possibly disabling it?
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rwandering
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/17 04:20:48
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No, no wireless. It did occur to me it could be a power surge of some kind, but it has been plugged into a conditioning UPS this whole time. I'm reaching out to MOTU to see if they can help.
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bitflipper
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/17 15:48:15
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☄ Helpfulby rwandering 2017/10/17 16:02:16
Audio interfaces do fail. Frequently. I had a MOTU for years until one day it abruptly had no audio output all. They are all consumer-grade electronic devices, with many cost vs. quality engineering compromises. But that's the reason we can afford them in the first place.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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rwandering
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Re: Strange recording artifact; help with the source?
2017/10/28 04:44:18
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I heard back from MOTU on Monday (about a week after posting in their tech forum). I produced a much better example. Their answer: the X99 chipset on my motherboard. I figured I had ruled out my computer with the steps I took, but perhaps not. To test that out, I ran a test on a difference computer (a laptop), and after 8 hours, it was working perfectly. Last night I repurposed another computer I happened to have that is better suited for a DAW and so far it seems like its OK. The good news is I don't have to spend any money. The bad news is that I already bought the new (and better) MOTU 828es, but will probably send it back!
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