jbraner
I have external USB backup drives too - and I always leave them disconnected, except when I'm backing up to them ;-)
I have a few USB connecterson the fromn of my PC case, so I have the cable sitting right there, and whack it in when I need it. This way I can't screw up anything on the backup drive - because it's not connected.
 
So the moral is - it sounds like a good idea to disconnect these anyway! ;-)
 
I'm glad to hear it's (hopefully) fixed! ;-)

Actually at one time I was very good about keeping the backup HD's disconnected. Mostly because I thought maybe a intense power surge from a lightning strike or something could fry the computer and maybe even the USB HD's connected.
 
Then I guess I got complacent and liked the convenience of accessing those HD's when I'm downstairs using my internet computer and remote desktop.
 
So you're right this is a very good idea for several reasons. I still wonder why Windows 10 wants to wake up HD's that are not being used before writing to my audio HD. To me that seems weird. Why not let the suckers sleep and wake them up wen you need them?
 
Like you suggested, I have been using 64 for safety buffer. And using 256 for buffer setting. Can you tell me what setting you have for buffers? I know you said 64 for safety buffer was better for your system.
 
With the 256 64 setting I get 19 msec total round-trip. For a very long time I had been using 128 128 which gave me 12 msec total round trip. Since I'm a keyboard player I like to keep the latency as low as I can.
 
Every time I got the crackles embedded in the wav file, I was working at low loads, sometimes 1 audio track and no midi tracks, little or no FX. So I’m not sure if the buffer settings could help in this situation, but I'm trying it.

Like you suggested, I have been using 64 for safety buffer. And using 256 for buffer setting. Can you tell me what setting you have for buffers? I know you said 64 for safety buffer was better for your system.

I use 128/48 - that gives 10.2ms RTL.
I like to try 64/48 (5.8ms) when I'm tracking guitars and that works if there aren't too many amp sims in use, but 128/48 is always OK.
Then when I'm mixing and have lots of plugins loaded, I go up to buffers of 256 or even 512 because it doesn't matter.

If I said I use safety buffers = 64, that will have been a brain fart (it happens) 😄
Safety buffers = 16 usually works OK too, but I usually leave it at 48.

jbraner

Like you suggested, I have been using 64 for safety buffer. And using 256 for buffer setting. Can you tell me what setting you have for buffers? I know you said 64 for safety buffer was better for your system.

 
I use 128/48 - that gives 10.2ms RTL.
I like to try 64/48 (5.8ms) when I'm tracking guitars and that works if there aren't too many amp sims in use, but 128/48 is always OK.
Then when I'm mixing and have lots of plugins loaded, I go up to buffers of 256 or even 512 because it doesn't matter.
 
If I said I use safety buffers = 64, that will have been a brain fart (it happens) 😄
Safety buffers = 16 usually works OK too, but I usually leave it at 48.

 
 
So do you use 64/48 because you're using real time FX and they don’t sound right at higher latencies? Do you get crackles? So why do you use 256 or 512 for buffers? Do you get dropouts or crackles if you don’t raise the buffers in a heavy load situation?

jbraner

gmp

jbraner

Like you suggested, I have been using 64 for safety buffer. And using 256 for buffer setting. Can you tell me what setting you have for buffers? I know you said 64 for safety buffer was better for your system.

I use 128/48 - that gives 10.2ms RTL.
I like to try 64/48 (5.8ms) when I'm tracking guitars and that works if there aren't too many amp sims in use, but 128/48 is always OK.
Then when I'm mixing and have lots of plugins loaded, I go up to buffers of 256 or even 512 because it doesn't matter.

If I said I use safety buffers = 64, that will have been a brain fart (it happens) 😄
Safety buffers = 16 usually works OK too, but I usually leave it at 48.

So do you use 64/48 because you're using real time FX and they don’t sound right at higher latencies? Do you get crackles?

I like the lower latency if possible. Sometimes with my headphones on, I can hear the difference between hitting a string, and the sound coming in to the headphones.
(BTW - I'm not sure if this is caused by PDC for my amp sims etc, rather than the latency caused by the MOTU)
If I have 5 or 6 tracks running amp(and speaker) sims, I start to get crackles at 64/48.
 
 

So why do you use 256 or 512 for buffers? Do you get dropouts or crackles if you don’t raise the buffers in a heavy load situation?

Because, when I'm mixing, I start to load up some reverbs and lots of eq/compressor etc plugins. This brings up CPU usage on my 5 year old PC, so I get "hifg CPU" crackles ;-)
It (buffer settings and latency) doesn't matter when you're mixing - only when you're playing a KB or guitar etc.
 

Thanks what you said makes sense. I don't like the input monitoring in Sonar, because it does sound weird at times. I suppose because of the latency. It may be that you have to use it if you have FX on that track which you need to hear in real time.
 
All of my analog inputs first go into my analog recording console, I route them with busses to the AVB and then Plat, back to the AVB analog outs and back into my analog mixer. I do all my input monitoring using the routing and mixer settings inside the AVB box.
 
It's  a pretty complicated routing and mixer setup, but yet the basic idea is fairly simple. I use the Aux sends to route the input signal on the Analog 1 input to the Analog 1 output and do this for all inputs. If you're interested in this, I don't mind sending you my Device Preset and my personal notes on how it works.

Hi Gerry,

What you're doing sounds great, and I don't think latency is so important - unless you're playing soft synths.

It wouldn't work for me, as I play guitar through amp sim plugins - so I have to monitor through SONAR, otherwise I'll just hear "dink dink dink" (DI guitar) instead of nice distorted power chords 😉

I can't tell you for sure, but my new theory is that there is latency in the amp sims, and also in some other plugins that may be running on other tracks. I need to play around with turning of PDC and stuff, but I can't be bothered.
Usually the 10ms latency is fine, but sometimes it bothers me - so I'm not sure if it's just me, or if sometimes the PDC is adding more latency to the 10ms.
If I can play guitar at 64/48 (5.8ms) it's always good.

PS - I also have a lot of luck taking the safety buffers down to 16, but it doesn't give a lot less latency than just leaving it on 48.

I've been running a MOTU 16A for about two years now without any of these hassles. I also didn't upgrade to the latest MOTU drivers either. My system was working flawlessly so I didn't bother. I recently had to perform a reinstall of Windows 7 64 bit and decided to install the latest firmware and driver. Big mistake - I now have the dreaded intermittent crackles embedded in certain recordings as well as losing audio evey now and then. I have to close SONAR and reopen before things return to normal.
 
I tried to work things out with MOTU support but even after trying various settings etc things are much the same.
 
I'm going to go back to the driver that worked and carry on with that until they fix this problem or at least acknowledge that there is a problem.
 
I don't know if any other MOTU users have rolled back to see if there is any improvemt. If anyone has tried this please post your experience.
 
Thanks
 
Peter.

gmp

PJH
I've been running a MOTU 16A for about two years now without any of these hassles. I also didn't upgrade to the latest MOTU drivers either. My system was working flawlessly so I didn't bother. I recently had to perform a reinstall of Windows 7 64 bit and decided to install the latest firmware and driver. Big mistake - I now have the dreaded intermittent crackles embedded in certain recordings as well as losing audio evey now and then. I have to close SONAR and reopen before things return to normal.
 
I tried to work things out with MOTU support but even after trying various settings etc things are much the same.
 
I'm going to go back to the driver that worked and carry on with that until they fix this problem or at least acknowledge that there is a problem.
 
I don't know if any other MOTU users have rolled back to see if there is any improvemt. If anyone has tried this please post your experience.
 
Thanks
 
Peter.

Thanks for chiming in Peter, I hope other MOTU users share their experiences also, especially with this latest firmware that's causing these embedded crackles. For me this new software is very good, better than the previous, but the firmware is bad.

In your case I'd definitely say go back to the old firmware and possibly the old software. I'd suggest trying my crackle test. In my case the bad crackle could happen on the 1st recording and maybe even as high as the 21st recording. I even setup a macro the keeps testing it about 40x and then it's easy to check each one for crackles.

The crackle problem only happens on the 1st recording of the file when you open it. If it passes that test, don't bother testing that file any more. Just close and reopen it. I'll tell MOTU about your experience and you can tell them about mine. The more of us complain the more they'll take it seriously and fix it
 

Thanks for the advice, gmp.
 
I have tried rolling back to the stable driver version (version 1.6) but the audio is completely distorted. The web browser also reports "no devices found".
 
I'm thinking that I'm going to have to go back the older firmware as well.
 
I'm just not sure how I go about this. Do you have any advice? Can you revert back to the older firmware using the latest driver? 
 
I'd appreciate any advice.
 
Thanks.

PJH

gmp

PJH
I've been running a MOTU 16A for about two years now without any of these hassles. I also didn't upgrade to the latest MOTU drivers either. My system was working flawlessly so I didn't bother. I recently had to perform a reinstall of Windows 7 64 bit and decided to install the latest firmware and driver. Big mistake - I now have the dreaded intermittent crackles embedded in certain recordings as well as losing audio evey now and then. I have to close SONAR and reopen before things return to normal.
 
I tried to work things out with MOTU support but even after trying various settings etc things are much the same.
 
I'm going to go back to the driver that worked and carry on with that until they fix this problem or at least acknowledge that there is a problem.
 
I don't know if any other MOTU users have rolled back to see if there is any improvemt. If anyone has tried this please post your experience.
 
Thanks
 
Peter.

Thanks for chiming in Peter, I hope other MOTU users share their experiences also, especially with this latest firmware that's causing these embedded crackles. For me this new software is very good, better than the previous, but the firmware is bad.

In your case I'd definitely say go back to the old firmware and possibly the old software. I'd suggest trying my crackle test. In my case the bad crackle could happen on the 1st recording and maybe even as high as the 21st recording. I even setup a macro the keeps testing it about 40x and then it's easy to check each one for crackles.

The crackle problem only happens on the 1st recording of the file when you open it. If it passes that test, don't bother testing that file any more. Just close and reopen it. I'll tell MOTU about your experience and you can tell them about mine. The more of us complain the more they'll take it seriously and fix it
 

Thanks for the advice, gmp.
 
I have tried rolling back to the stable driver version (version 1.6) but the audio is completely distorted. The web browser also reports "no devices found".
 
I'm thinking that I'm going to have to go back the older firmware as well.
 
I'm just not sure how I go about this. Do you have any advice? Can you revert back to the older firmware using the latest driver? 
 
I'd appreciate any advice.
 
Thanks.

I’ve heard it’s best to uninstall the newer software first before installing the older software. I’ve had some similar problems with the audio being distorted and no devices found. Whenever you make a change shut down the computer and the AVB box, then reboot the AVB box and when it’s done reboot the computer.

 

A few times through this process I had to reset the AVB box to factory settings, but make sure you first save your device preset and your mixer preset and also write down the settings at the top of the device page, because some of those are not saved or restored. After you  return to to factory settings, load those presets back in to return your box to normal.

 

Return to factory settings only if you run out of options with rebooting and installing. There are a few little tricks to exporting and importing presets. let me know if you have any problems.

 

I saved all of my firmware and software files on my computer. If for some reason you need any of those I can give you a link to them to download from my MS Skydrive. After I was getting all these crazy things happen like you described, I installed the newest software and everything returned to normal. So I’m using the old firmware Sept 2016 and the new software Oct 2017

 

Let us know if everything gets back to normal for you – wish you the best!

PJH
Thanks so much for this gmp and jbraner,
So correct me if i'm wrong, you are running new software with old firmware? Are you having problems? 
No crackles or loss of audio? I was led to believe that you could only run the new software in conjunction with the latest firmware.

Yes running new software with old firmware - No crackles or loss of audio. All Win updates, latest Plat

PJH

gmp

PJH
Thanks so much for this gmp and jbraner,
So correct me if i'm wrong, you are running new software with old firmware? Are you having problems? 
No crackles or loss of audio? I was led to believe that you could only run the new software in conjunction with the latest firmware.

Yes running new software with old firmware - No crackles or loss of audio. All Win updates, latest Plat

So you're running 1.28 firmware with the latest software (October 16, 2017)? 
 
According to the MOTU website that software is only compatible with the latest firmware (1.29)
 
It looks like you've been doing a massive amount of research on this and if you're having success why doesn't MOTU release this information? They are convinced that the problem is USB related.
 
I've only just managed to roll back my firmware and driver software but I rolled back to software version 1.6 (March 23, 2016) and firmware version 1.25. I'd love to try your settings but it was such a struggle to get my system up and running I'm a bit reluctant to go through all that again!
 
Thanks for all the help, Gerry!

Yes, I'm running 1.28 firmware with the latest software (October 16, 2017) MOTU tech support in my opinion is not so good with PC's. They seem to be Mac people. Others have said the same thing on this forum.
 
The tech I'm discussing this with the website ticket is interested in this problem and asked me quite a few questions. I mentioned your name as having the same issues, so hopefully if enough of us contact them they will get this fixed.
 
I had a lightning strike take out the LAN on my AVB in March and when they came out with the new firmware I realized there was no way I could update to the latest firmware with no LAN, so they were very nice about sending me a new box on 7/1 even though I was about 3 weeks past my 2 year warranty.
 
So this particular embedded crackle problem didn't' show up until 8/23/17. I thought for a good while it was a faulty box, and I had to do tons of testing to finally figure out it was the firmware, which I first used with the new box on 7/1. I was determined to figure this one out, since I didn't want to have an out of town singer coming in and be embarrassed by a ruined crackly vocal.
 
So my advise to you is if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. If that old software and firmware is working for now, just go with it. I thought it was just my bad luck with all the distorted audio and losing the connection to the box like you experienced. But since you reported the same thing. We just need to accept that it’s just a quirky process and the quicker we have a solution the better.
 
I have tons of Acronis images of my HD and keep good notes. I also have Win updates disabled until I upgrade to a new Plat version, then I upgrade everything and then stop and make sure everything is stable. Too often I’ve had to revert back to old image files because something didn’t work right. For me a month is too soon to upgrade Plat, so I usually go 2 or so months just to get an idea of what bugs and crashes are there before moving forward. Let me know if everything is stable now.