Anderton
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/20 15:27:31
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2017/10/20 16:47:48
bapu What's striking to me is why Cakewalk didn't/can't hire Craig now.
To be brutally honest, I'm too expensive. I offered to give them what I had so far on the eZine and the 30 FX Chains, but haven't heard back yet. The ever-wonderful Soundwise has offered to QC the FX Chains if I don't have time to get to them, so they'll be available one way or another, even if not officially through Cakewalk.
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Resonant Serpent
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/20 16:46:55
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MandolinPicker
Anderton I don't know if anyone at Cakewalk uses SONAR as extensively in real-world projects as I do...
This is where Cakewalk and SONAR development might take the biggest hit. As Craig was a power user of SONAR, he could interact with the developers during the development of SONAR and provide a voice from the user end. Too many times software (any type - not just DAWs) is written by folks who never have to use it. As a result, they tend to write it in ways that make sense to the programmer, but not the user. The loss of Craig at Cakewalk may result in future updates that make sense from a programmers point of view, but not from a user's point of view. I love SONAR, and hope this doesn't happen, but time will ultimately tell....
I have to admit that I was a bit shocked to read Anderton's portion of this statement. We've been told over and over that the people working on the program are musicians too, and that they have an insight to what makes a good recording application. Maybe those people have already left Sonar for greener pastures? I could easily name 20 ideas that would greatly increase the functionality of the program because I used it on a daily basis along with previous incarnations of Cake products since '95.
A deep chesty bawl echoes from rimrock to rimrock, rolls down the mountain, and fades into the far blackness of the night. It is an outburst of wild defiant sorrow, and of contempt for all the adversities of the world. - Aldo Leopold
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Larry Jones
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/20 16:50:03
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bapu
Larry Jones PS: What's "IBTL?"
In before the lock.
Yikes. I didn't think I was saying anything that incendiary. Well, at least it wasn't locked, even it it was sent to the basement.
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Larry Jones
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/20 16:58:04
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MandolinPicker
Anderton I don't know if anyone at Cakewalk uses SONAR as extensively in real-world projects as I do...
This is where Cakewalk and SONAR development might take the biggest hit. As Craig was a power user of SONAR, he could interact with the developers during the development of SONAR and provide a voice from the user end. Too many times software (any type - not just DAWs) is written by folks who never have to use it. As a result, they tend to write it in ways that make sense to the programmer, but not the user. The loss of Craig at Cakewalk may result in future updates that make sense from a programmers point of view, but not from a user's point of view. I love SONAR, and hope this doesn't happen, but time will ultimately tell....
Yes. In addition to your points, for better or for worse, Craig Anderton is strongly associated with SONAR now. I have no way to prove it, but I'd bet there is a not insignificant cross section of users who either started using SONAR, kept using SONAR (instead of switching), or just have an improved opinion of SONAR because of his involvement. For this reason, I think this is a SONAR issue, not merely a topic for chatting in the Coffee House. PS: I have no illusions that anything we say here will make any difference. When corporations make decisions without telling you in advance, it means your opinion on that decision is not important to them.
post edited by Larry Jones - 2017/10/20 18:50:52
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Mesh
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/20 17:01:13
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Soundwise As for drama - just stay away from trolls and forum monkeys and you'll be fine.
Ouch, that hurts .......and HERE I thought our music was intended to be less dramatic.
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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bapu
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/20 17:50:03
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Larry Jones
bapu
Larry Jones PS: What's "IBTL?"
In before the lock.
Yikes. I didn't think I was saying anything that incendiary. Well, at least it wasn't locked, even it it was sent to the basement.
In my day, the basement was "where it's at". You know, away from the "adults". And no, I don't think you said anything incendiary. It's just that in the end it was not really SONAR related and so it was just as likely to be locked as moved here to the Fun House.
post edited by bapu - 2017/10/20 19:09:49
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forkol
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/20 18:23:32
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IMHO, and only IMHO, and I really *hate* to say or think this, but... Craig's departure is one of the death by a thousand cuts that Cakewalk seems to be going through recently. It's been going on for awhile, at least since Greg Hendershott sold out. There's been costly mistake after mistake being made, and I think it's been taking it's toll. The DAW marketplace is crowded as ever, and I've always thought there's just too many out there to have them all continue at the level they are now. I was hoping for the best with the Gibson purchase, but given their financial issues, I don't think it looks good. DAW development looks to be expensive, and you either need sheer marketplace dominance (ProTools, Ableton, FL Studio), Big hardware companies (Logic Pro, Studio One, Cubase) or rich-pocketed developers (Reaper) to be successful. To be fair, I think Reason and Bitwig Studio are also in a similar situation as well. I think the next year or two are critical. I don't see the marketplace being kind to music instrument/software/hardware companies in that time-frame, I think the economy will be slowing down, and music hardware/software are always discretionary purchases. Even if whatever new products Alex has in the pipeline are successful, and Cakewalk is profitable, then that makes them a candidate for being sold. If Cakewalk is not profitable, then it's still a good possibility that it gets sold, either thought a restructuring or to raise cash. Then, the bigger question is who would buy it? Native Instruments? Microsoft? Magix? Possibly even Izotope? Who else? Lots of cons and a few pro's there for those possible players. That's how I see it. I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. However, for now, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing, making music with it.
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paulo
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/20 20:48:45
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bapu I met Craig at NAMM. He is/was the same person on this forum as IRL.
Did you enjoy the rest of the show?
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bapu
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/20 21:52:09
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paulo
bapu I met Craig at NAMM. He is/was the same person on this forum as IRL.
Did you enjoy the rest of the show?
Why yes I did, thankee. That was first year I met Jan (Old55) at person for the show. I believe that was year X1 came out.
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/20 21:54:21
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2017/10/20 22:46:58
Please don't worry about user focus with the developers at Cakewalk. We are very much user focused as we use the software ourselves. The CTO (Noel) and I both use it extensively as well as many other folks at the bakery. I've been a UI champion ever since I joined Cakewalk back in 2002. As far as tips go, I'm sure we'll find a way to get useful information out to you all. We're not the master wordsmiths like Craig (I think he writes in his sleep! I really think he's solved time travel or something since time just seems endless for him. ) But, we have a lot of passion, drive and innovation. So we'll be doing our best to contribute. Unofficially I posted a tip today because I didn't want this Friday to go by without something. As far as the e-zine we're talking about how best to communicate additional info about the SONAR updates. Don't know yet what form that will take. It will probably change into something we can make within our constraints. I'm sure we'll be providing more info in coming days. Keith
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/20 22:42:07
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2017/10/20 22:47:00
Jon Sasor (QA) and I have also recorded/mixed/produced multiple albums, singles, and worked on many projects in SONAR over the last 8+ years. My first CW product was PA7. Jon risked the D.C. Sniper to grab a box of Guitar Tracks Pro. You could say we're dedicated ;)
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Larry Jones
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/21 00:14:33
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Keith and Seth: Thanks for weighing in. I have a pretty big (for me) financial investment in SONAR as well as an emotional one, so tremors in the corporate structure resonate and not always in a good way. It's good to hear from you guys every so often.
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Anderton
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/21 00:32:16
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☄ Helpfulby Mitch_I 2017/10/21 15:24:27
Just to clarify - I don't have to develop SONAR so I get to use it exclusively in real-world projects, with the clock running, almost every day including weekends. I don't see any way that developers could just take time off from developing and do nothing but projects that used the software. Think about it...if they did, there would be no monthly updates Also, in another one of these threads in the software section, it was stated that my primary function at Gibson was Cakewalk. That is not at all true. I fulfilled many tasks at Gibson: - Lots of videos for KRK, including the marquee one on the V-Series speakers.
- Ad copy for KRK and Cerwin-Vega, as well as Cerwin-Vega videos for the P-series speakers.
- Representing Gibson on various industry executive boards.
- Was heavily involved in four mergers and acquisitions, including Cakewalk.
- The sample library that's being shipped with 2017.10...I put together that deal.
- Assisted Henry in some negotiations with the Chinese government re manufacturing facilities.
- Helped bring Harmony Central back from the dead after GC almost killed it. It's grown 29% over last year, the newsletter has gone from 24,000 to 91,000 opt-in subscribers, and the site manages over $40K of digital advertising.
- I developed the transient suppressor circuit for the Les Paul Standard, and the switchable wiring in the control cavity was my idea.
- I assigned two patents to Gibson, one with telecommunications applications.
- Wrote press releases, and a lot of content about the guitars.
- Did owner's manuals for the automatic tuning.
- Provided the sales people with key selling points for various products.
- Put together the slide shows that looped in the background at trade shows.
That's the tip of the iceberg, but you get the idea. I also worked on licensing and ran Entertainment Relations for six months. So basically you can think of what I did as being the corporate equivalent of a utility infielder. I was stretched pretty thin. Gibson wants to get a full-time infield, and I can't blame them. which would make me more or less superfluous. There are no hard feelings, I'm on the top of the list of people they'd like to re-hire someday in a different capacity, and there's already talk of my doing some consulting.
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Beepster
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/21 01:10:48
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Craig. You should not have to explain a damned thing at all. Those of us who have learned from you appreciate everything you've done and the time, effort and sheer love for our shared craft you've invested around here (and in general throughout your life)... and I seriously don't think you are gonna actually "leave" us. You may just end up coming and hanging out with us CH guys/gals (do we still have gals up in here?) whilst you refocus/rekerjigger that wonderfully overflowing brain of yours. It gets a little weird at times but that's generally because we just be goofin' off betwixt actually making musical type things happen. Yanno... smokin' with the boys in the backroom (or however the fart that Steely Dan toon goes). tl;dr Create and be moar craig than you evar dun craig'd in yer craigy life. When you need to larff or fart or kersnortlefart... Pop in and say hi. Also... where the heck has Karl been?
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Beepster
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/21 01:14:26
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Oh... and I'm nutz deep in my own production quagmires at the moe and I'm not sure how I could be of any use to you BUT... if I can be you know how to use the PM button. Ya? Okay. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go be stoopid somewhere else. ;-)
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/21 12:18:54
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☄ Helpfulby Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk] 2017/10/21 15:23:31
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk] Jon Sasor (QA) and I have also recorded/mixed/produced multiple albums, singles, and worked on many projects in SONAR over the last 8+ years. My first CW product was PA7. Jon risked the D.C. Sniper to grab a box of Guitar Tracks Pro. You could say we're dedicated ;)
I just checked. As of today 90% of the cakewalk staff are musicians and many are active gigging musicians as well just like you all. While you don't have to be a musician to do this (I know plenty of devs in music companies who aren't musicians themselves) its generally the case, since you have to be crazy enough to want to do this in the first place :)
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Anderton
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/21 15:57:50
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There are lots of musicians in music industry companies, but few have the degree of proficiency that Noel has on jazz guitar.
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craigb
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/21 18:08:01
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I always wished I had been able to develop fun stuff like music software or games when I was younger... I started at a Defense Contractor when I was 19 (been programming since I was 7) and my first placement was working on the guidance system for the Tomahawk cruise missile, but I was pulled over pretty quick to help out on a huge project creating a financial system for the Navy. Once I had that experience it seemed I was always having to write invoicing systems! BLEH. I'm positive my guitar playing would have been MUCH better if I had ended up coding music software. (However, I was very much involved with getting the first generation of internet onto Verizon Wireless cell phones, 1xRTT, and wrote the fuzzy logic code to handle matching call records from cell tower to cell tower. *Sigh...*) Ironically, the closest I ever got was helping Greg debug a problem over the phone somewhere around Cakewalk v1.0! C++ had only been around for about four years back then, don't remember if that was the original language or not.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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John
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/21 18:56:35
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Anderton Just to clarify - I don't have to develop SONAR so I get to use it exclusively in real-world projects, with the clock running, almost every day including weekends. I don't see any way that developers could just take time off from developing and do nothing but projects that used the software. Think about it...if they did, there would be no monthly updates Also, in another one of these threads in the software section, it was stated that my primary function at Gibson was Cakewalk. That is not at all true. I fulfilled many tasks at Gibson:
- Lots of videos for KRK, including the marquee one on the V-Series speakers.
- Ad copy for KRK and Cerwin-Vega, as well as Cerwin-Vega videos for the P-series speakers.
- Representing Gibson on various industry executive boards.
- Was heavily involved in four mergers and acquisitions, including Cakewalk.
- The sample library that's being shipped with 2017.10...I put together that deal.
- Assisted Henry in some negotiations with the Chinese government re manufacturing facilities.
- Helped bring Harmony Central back from the dead after GC almost killed it. It's grown 29% over last year, the newsletter has gone from 24,000 to 91,000 opt-in subscribers, and the site manages over $40K of digital advertising.
- I developed the transient suppressor circuit for the Les Paul Standard, and the switchable wiring in the control cavity was my idea.
- I assigned two patents to Gibson, one with telecommunications applications.
- Wrote press releases, and a lot of content about the guitars.
- Did owner's manuals for the automatic tuning.
- Provided the sales people with key selling points for various products.
- Put together the slide shows that looped in the background at trade shows.
That's the tip of the iceberg, but you get the idea. I also worked on licensing and ran Entertainment Relations for six months.
So basically you can think of what I did as being the corporate equivalent of a utility infielder. I was stretched pretty thin. Gibson wants to get a full-time infield, and I can't blame them. which would make me more or less superfluous.
There are no hard feelings, I'm on the top of the list of people they'd like to re-hire someday in a different capacity, and there's already talk of my doing some consulting.
What does a guy have to do to stay hired? If the above is not enough what is?
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craigb
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Re: Some Thoughts on Craig's Departure
2017/10/21 19:39:22
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Now-a-days companies do not want long-term employees. They do everything they can to avoid the possibility of pensions (heck, most newer employees have trouble working enough hours in a week to earn benefits!). It's the sad state of things currently. Then, of course, companies no longer realize the value of their employees. Some asshat at the C-level assumes that anyone can be easily replaced without any loss in productivity.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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