AnsweredMIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF.

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lloydfrayne
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2017/11/08 00:15:28 (permalink)

MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF.

So i bought the full version of Sonar X3 for $500

Im running windows 10 pro, 8gb ram, i7 core processors.
Focusrite 2i4 for my audio interface

My midi lags on all of my midi controllers via Alesis drum kit and Yamaha keyboard i use to generate notes

REGARDLESS of what buffer settings, lowest possible, i get this .5 second delay that makes it impossible to record midi correctly.
I have started new tracks and have inserted VST alone, no FX. 

8 months i have tried EVERYTHING i have read and seen people do
even when i was so confident i would finally have it fixed.

When i first had Sonar Cakewalk had a customer support number when i was having a slight midi latency issue. This was when i was still new to it. All it was is the buffer settings, (THEN i was able to simply adjust and fix when i was using windows 8.1) Now i adjust, it doesnt solve the problem whatsoever

EVERYTHING is updated. I have sat here trying to solve it. It's been very discouraging for me. No customer support. I now regret purchasing sonar as much as I love it. I dont want to give up yet...
I apologize for my frustration. but this is enough. 


If you can please guide me through some steps i would appreciate it
It might be necessary to do it over the phone, instead of here.

Much thanks for any help and responses anyways!
- Jacob


#1
jppineau
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2017/11/08 00:34:40 (permalink)
Hello, 
Try to check the Master FX Mute switch on the Tools Bar when recording in MIDI with softsynths. That should bring you back to the normal latency you can expect. Now, I am among those who simply don't understand why it is still the case with the current power monsters we have nowadays... As I've been on Cakewalk since 1996, I have no clue about other platforms but this behavior should not exist unless one gets 100 + plugins loaded in a project.

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Various Keyboards and controllers.
#2
Leee
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2017/11/08 02:14:07 (permalink)
I'm not sure what type audio drivers you are using, but for me, I get noticeable latency on every type of driver I use EXCEPT ASIO.   If you're not already using an ASIO driver, you should try switching to that.

Lee Shapiro
www.soundclick.com/leeshapiro
 
Welcome BandLab and thank you for giving Cakewalk and Sonar a new lease on life.
#3
bitman
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2017/11/08 02:23:51 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby lloydfrayne 2017/11/11 20:55:32
Go ahead and leave you plugins on and try clicking the PDC button on the ribbon bar.
It has been my experience that having a plug on a bus with lots of latency causes this. The PDC button is a temporary fix for me while I record midi.
 
 
 
#4
scook
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. 2017/11/08 02:47:15 (permalink)
This is the third thread created on this subject. To avoid repeating suggestions others may want to review the previous threads.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3662828
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3665966
 
I ask the OP not to create another thread on this subject. Pick one of them and work the issue on it.
 
FWIW, X3 went out of support in January 2016.
 
 
#5
Jesse G
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. 2017/11/08 02:49:27 (permalink)
Comment removed,
 
Thanks for the information scook.

Peace,
Jesse G. A fisher of men  <><
==============================
Cakewalk and I are going places together!

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#6
chuckebaby
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. 2017/11/08 02:59:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby lloydfrayne 2017/11/11 21:17:48
You should try running the Alesis through midi (in to the 214) not usb.
As mentioned by lee, make sure your running in ASIO as driver mode.
And as Scook mentioned, don't start new threads, it gets confusing as we cant keep track of what you have and have not tried yet.

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#7
CBJ
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. 2017/11/11 06:38:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby lloydfrayne 2017/11/11 21:03:59
Just an observation regarding your Alesis & Yamaha controllers.
 
Make sure that both of them have Local turned off. Because you are listing both these controllers & they both exhibit latency issues it leaves me to believe they both need to have "LOCAL ON/OFF" turned off so the devices don't attempt to play the internal sounds first. Roland & 2 Box Drums are the only MIDI devices that I'm aware that actually send the MIDI data out of the external MIDI ports & then the signal continues to trigger the internal LOCAL sounds. Perhaps they are already set to "LOCAL OFF" but it's worth a try. 
 
I got rid of my Alesis Studio Pro 10 kit & bought a 2 Box Drum system due to the latency issues in the Alesis. Even after I set the "LOCAL OFF " I still had latency issues so I sold the kit to someone who was using them to learn & play drums rather that attempting to use them in a recording studio environment. Regardless of how I set the DM10 module up I was unable to get the Alesis drum pads to trigger Toontrack & Steven Slate Drums Virtual Instruments. I tried the USB & the MIDI out connectors but the results were always the same, too much latency. Once I attached the 2 Box Drums it was instant gratification & every Drum VI on my PC plays without a glitch.
 
On another note I see that a couple of Forum members suggested you should make sure you use ASIO drivers & this is really important. You might also let us know if you've added a new hard drive to your system? The Virtual Instruments you might be trying to access will be problematic if they are accessed off of a 5,400 RPM hard drive. You should always use a 7,200 RPM drive if you are streaming your VI's off of the hard drive. Your Sonar software should be installed on your Boot Drive C:\ while your (VI's) virtual instruments should be on a secondary hard drive & Sonar should be recording & playing back tracks off the third 7,200 hard drive. These drives should all be mounted inside the PC case & not connected via USB1 or USB 2 otherwise you will have issues with crackling audio. I suggest that you utilize Esata if you are attempting to connect these hard drives externally. 
 
This brings up a whole new discussion regarding external hard drives & I have had no luck utilizing USB to connect a VI or Recording / Playback hard drive to be used with Sonar. To this day I record live sessions on an Acer Laptop that has 2gb of RAM with Windows XP, but the two external hard drives are 3tb 7,200 drives connected via an Esata connector & I have never had any issues for the last 6 years with audio glitches or latency of any sort. I've even had a drummer on one session that wanted his MIDI data to be recorded as well so we could replace his drums if he wasn't happy with the live audio & it worked flawlessly.
 
Hope some of this sheds a light on what you can expect from Sonar. By the way, although I own a copy of X3 to this day I still record with Sonar 8.53.
 
post edited by CBJ - 2017/11/11 07:04:51
#8
.
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. 2017/11/11 06:53:44 (permalink)
I have no problems with my Alesis DM10 Studio Kit, just plug the USB into a PC USB slot, let Windows handle it, never manually installed any drivers or anything. No issues with latency using either BFD3, AD2, Superior Drummer 2, EzDrummer2, works like a charm with the above vsti's in standalone, or as a plugin in Studio One 3 Pro (99% of the time) or REAPER (the other 1% of the time), can't recall if I ever tried to use it in Platinum, don't think so.

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#9
Anderton
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. 2017/11/11 18:51:38 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby lloydfrayne 2017/11/11 21:03:41
As to the OP, we a) missing needed information like what drivers you're using, and b) any comments on whether any of the suggestions here worked.
 
FWIW having a half-second of latency is not common in any DAW, but it can happen in any DAW because the issue doesn't really involve the DAW. That's why you may not get a response from support (although as mentioned, support for X3 ended last year anyway).
 
There are certain obvious fixes that have already been mentioned - up-to-date ASIO drivers, PDC button, isolating plug-ins with lookahead, parameters in the controllers themselves, etc. If none of those solve the problem, then it's something unique to your setup. So asking support to fix it is kind of like calling up Chevrolet support and asking why you get a flat tire when you go over a particular section of road; the problem is the road, not the Chevrolet.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#10
azslow3
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. 2017/11/11 19:29:25 (permalink)
Anderton
FWIW having a half-second of latency is not common in any DAW, but it can happen in any DAW because the issue doesn't really involve the DAW. That's why you may not get a response from support (although as mentioned, support for X3 ended last year anyway).

In one of previous threads, I have asked either he has the same delay when playing inside Sonar by mouse. And he has replied there is no delay in that case. If that is ture, that excludes ASIO/PDC/plug-ins from the equation. Leaving Windows with drivers only. Alesis can be bad, but not in 500ms region.
 
I had close to the same once. My TD11 and CN-43 was playing with significant delay. I guess around 70-120ms. ASIO was ok (10ms), but most interesting by MPK Mini also was ok. So, while sound strange, I believe such effect is possible. I have updated windows, disabled Gaming mode and revised power saving features (I can not remember something was wrong here). And everything was normal again. I mean in my case the problems was for sure NOT in Sonar.
 

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#11
lloydfrayne
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. 2017/11/11 21:02:37 (permalink)
My apologies everyone for the slow response, I actually solved my issue. It may be a temporary fix that bypasses the problem i was having. Thanks to bitman for the Answer!

I never had anybody mention the PDC button on the ribbon bar. I never tried it actually. My fault, and for the multiple threads I honestly didn't think it would matter, just wanted to post a more "recent" thread. So after some minor adjusting with the buffers in ASIO, I managed to get Quality sound without any Latency!

I hope this helps so many of you out there! Thanks again Bitman! and Thank you all for the suggestions, I actually learnt more here than my previous threads! Thanks to you awesome people! ;)
#12
scook
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. 2017/11/11 21:08:51 (permalink)
lloydfrayne
I never had anybody mention the PDC button on the ribbon bar.

Really? http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3662837
 
#13
lloydfrayne
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. 2017/11/11 21:16:59 (permalink)
Who knows. I've tried alot of settings, maybe I did try PDC but my ASIO settings might have affected that from working properly. Since I've gotten a new laptop thats windows 10, I've had issues with compatibility. Especially with the Medolyne update. Sonar Crashes with Windows 10 but on my other Laptop thats running windows 8.1... I receive no issues.
#14
jtorch68
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/18 18:15:44 (permalink)
Leee
I'm not sure what type audio drivers you are using, but for me, I get noticeable latency on every type of driver I use EXCEPT ASIO.   If you're not already using an ASIO driver, you should try switching to that.



When I run ASIO, both my time line and clock freeze.  If it's not one thing, it's another...
#15
scook
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/18 18:27:24 (permalink)
Sounds like an Avid interface. There are a couple of threads about their ASIO drivers and similar symptoms.
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chuckebaby
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/18 20:38:25 (permalink)
jtorch68

When I run ASIO, both my time line and clock freeze.  If it's not one thing, it's another...




Welcome to the forums.
You would really benefit yourself by leaving some details like: Soundcard, Windows version, Sonar version, Exc.
 
Unless of course you are just venting. Which we have all done. 
But rather than bump a 5 month old thread (as your first post), ask for help instead

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#17
chuckebaby
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/18 20:45:03 (permalink)
scook
Sounds like an Avid interface. There are a couple of threads about their ASIO drivers and similar symptoms.




Or possibly a Firewire interfaces that doesn't have the TI chipset ?

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#18
scook
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/18 21:02:20 (permalink)
chuckebaby
scook
Sounds like an Avid interface. There are a couple of threads about their ASIO drivers and similar symptoms.




Or possibly a Firewire interfaces that doesn't have the TI chipset ?


I thought that would affect the interface using any driver not just ASIO.
#19
jtorch68
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/18 21:17:13 (permalink)


chuckebaby
 
 
Welcome to the forums.
You would really benefit yourself by leaving some details like: Soundcard, Windows version, Sonar version, Exc.
 
Unless of course you are just venting. Which we have all done. 
But rather than bump a 5 month old thread (as your first post), ask for help instead



Sorry.  Newest of the Newbs, here.  I put the "I" in Ignorant.  Actually surprised to get such a quick response.  I came here for the latency issue, and I tripped over the ASIO clock issues while browsing.  This is what I am working with:


OS version: Windows 10 , 10.0, build: 16299 (x64)
Hardware: HP EliteDesk 800 G1 TWR, Hewlett-Packard, 18E4
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz
Logical processors: 8
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 16295 MB total

Realtek High Definition Audio

Mbox2 Mini interface

Akai MPK mini midi leyboard

SONAR Professional 


post edited by jtorch68 - 2018/03/18 21:42:59
#20
scook
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/18 21:46:54 (permalink)
There are quite a few threads about problems with MBox and ASIO. To see the threads search google for
site:forum.cakewalk.com mbox
 
I know of one user who reported success http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3092320
 
If you do create a new thread; please create it here. Your latency problem is from not running a low latency driver. This is a hardware issue.
#21
Anderton
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/19 02:05:23 (permalink)
The last Mbox 2 Windows driver update was 7 years ago, for an interface that's 12 years old - working in conjunction with a modern system and software. That alone could be the problem.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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chuckebaby
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/19 11:13:15 (permalink)
To be honest, these guys are right. The MBox2 has been known to have its issues in these present times.
Sonar did update its WASAPI support for windows 10 sometime last year, maybe that's an option instead of using the MBox2 driver try WASAPI.

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#23
jtorch68
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/20 00:55:48 (permalink)
I held on until the bitter end.  So, recommendations for a cheap, efficient, Sonar-friendly, USB interface for one lonely bass player with pretensions of compositional glory?

Also, thanks to all for the quick and helpful replies.  Sorry to jack the thread...
#24
Larry Jones
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/20 04:42:04 (permalink)
jtorch68
I held on until the bitter end.  So, recommendations for a cheap, efficient, Sonar-friendly, USB interface for one lonely bass player with pretensions of compositional glory?

Also, thanks to all for the quick and helpful replies.  Sorry to jack the thread...


You can get a Focusrite Scarlett Solo for less than a hundred bucks. I wouldn't go cheaper than that. Make sure you get a 2nd Gen model.

SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB  Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
#25
chuckebaby
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/20 10:29:14 (permalink)
I would second the Focusrite Scarlett's. That company updates their drivers frequently and their devices are durable, reliable and Quality.
 
The solos are good but you can get a used 212 for under a 100 bucks.

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#26
Zargg
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/20 11:25:37 (permalink)
I bought a Focusrite Solo for my laptop setup, and it's been very stable. Plus you get free/discounted plugins each month. I've got plugins for more than I payed for it last year
Best of luck.

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
BBZ
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#27
jtorch68
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Re: MIDI Latency. 8 months and not solved. No Cakewalk support. WTF. 2018/03/21 00:35:50 (permalink)
I ordered the Solo.  Delivery by April 2nd.  Thanks for all the help, peeps!

PS - Removing the Mbox2 got rid of both the latency and the timeclock issues.

PPS - I am also gratified to know where to go when trying to figure all this stuff out...


post edited by jtorch68 - 2018/03/22 17:15:29
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