Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help.

Author
bluebeat1313
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 122
  • Joined: 2017/11/11 12:40:16
  • Status: offline
2017/11/11 12:48:05 (permalink)

Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help.

Hi fellows. Can somebody please point me to the right direction or perhaps solve my riddle?

I am using Sonar Home Studio, more or less current, bought it less than a year ago.
I use it as mobile setup with touchscreen Surface tablet. I am having an issue when tracking...

When I bought it, Sonar worked like this: If I am recording multiple takes  on a single track, each time I would press stop, mute take newly recorded take and press record button again, it would create a new separate "take" lane  and newly recorded clip would go there.. ONE clip per lane.

 
Recently it started driving me mad. It starts out, normally, One clip per take lane....first take, second take etc..., and then suddenly it starts to add newly recorded clips to previous track lanes.... for example, clip that is #12 (end of song) would go to track take lane number 1 which contains beginning... 
 
I hope I am being clear on what is happening. I am using a combination of touchscreen and mouse when recording. Am I pressing something or Sonar decided to give up on me? Kindly help.
 
Thank you for your time.
#1

18 Replies Related Threads

    Zargg
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10666
    • Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
    • Location: Norway
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/11 13:58:35 (permalink)
    Hi, and welcome to this forum. If I misunderstand what you are saying, sorry.
    I believe this is as intended (as of quite recently), as it does take use of empty spaces in take lanes, to save screen estate. Example: 40 takes on 40 lanes on the verse. If you have 4 verses, you would have 160 take lanes.
    It is only supposed to re use empty places in take lanes.
    Hope it helps.
    All the best.

    Ken Nilsen
    Zargg
    BBZ
    Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
    Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
     
    #2
    Sylvan
    Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 793
    • Joined: 2005/04/14 14:51:02
    • Location: San Diego, CA-USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/11 14:06:15 (permalink)
    Yes, as Ken pointed out, this behavior is intended and VERY welcomed (at least by me.) This cleans things up so much better; such as in the example Ken gave above.
     
    For the workflow you are trying adhere to, perhaps making new tracks for each section would serve you well. For example: Verse 1 could be a track with all your takes for Verse 1 in it. Then verse 2 would be a new track with all your takes for verse 2 in that. Furthermore you could organize groups of tracks in Folders as well.

    SONAR Platinum
    RME Fireface UFX
    Tascam US 20X20
    Tascam US 16X08
    Intel i7-5830K LGA2011V3 (6 CORE)
    Asus X99-AII
    Corsair Vengeance DDR4 32GB
    Geeforce GTX 970 4GB
    #3
    bluebeat1313
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 122
    • Joined: 2017/11/11 12:40:16
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/11 14:21:25 (permalink)
    Thanks, but it is not what I am trying to accomplish. I know of workarounds, but what I am saying that sometimes it creates a new take lanes and sometimes it does not. Let me give you this scenario. I record 3 takes, mute first one. Then record 4th take and it goes to muted track number 1, so now I have to find and locate which one is muted. For those who like it neat, they could make as many tracks as they want, no questions there, but as far as automation goes of adding additional takes on record...I believe it is there, just maybe I am pressing something incorrectly. As I mentioned sometimes it would create take, sometimes it would not. Please let me know if there is a fix. Thank you
    #4
    Zargg
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10666
    • Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
    • Location: Norway
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/11 14:25:08 (permalink)
    Instead of muting the take lane, mark the clip, and press "K". That will mute the clip, not the lane itself.
     

    Ken Nilsen
    Zargg
    BBZ
    Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
    Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
     
    #5
    bluebeat1313
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 122
    • Joined: 2017/11/11 12:40:16
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/11 14:45:39 (permalink)
    Thanks, but Sorry, I feel this thread getting to other places, not initial question. I will try to re phrase it. The base of the question is automatically adding take lane on each stop/record action. Sometimes it does it, sometimes it does not. I want to find the cause of it.
    #6
    ChazEd
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 121
    • Joined: 2014/12/01 05:17:09
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/11 15:20:06 (permalink)
    This behavior was added in Sonar's February Update:
     
    Comping Enhancements
    February 2017
    Comping doesn't have to be a repetitive, mundane chore--the SONAR 2017.02 update makes it faster, easier, and more efficient than ever to assemble the best parts of multiple takes into finished, killer tracks.
    • SONAR re-uses empty lanes when comp recording, so projects are more compact and easier to edit
    • SONAR automatically hides muted takes - takes you likely didn’t want to hear - when you collapse the takes into a track
    • Double-click to maximize / restore Take lanes - easy in, easy out!
    • When comping with Melodyne, cropping clips updates the region shown in Melodyne’s window--SONAR’s advanced ARA (Audio Random Access) integration makes it possible
     
    I don't know if you can change this behavior.

    Ableton Live 10 Suite x64
    Korg Legacy Collection, FXpansion Tremor, Z3ta+ 2 & Rapture Pro
    Win 10 x64 (Still knocking on wood...)
    i7 4770, GA-H97-D3H, 16 GB, 7200 1TB + 2TB, RX 580, CX600V2
    UA-101 (Thank you, Roland, for the Windows 10 driver!), SM57, MG10/2, MicroKey 37
    #7
    bluebeat1313
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 122
    • Joined: 2017/11/11 12:40:16
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/11 16:20:12 (permalink)
    Not sure how to understand this.."re-uses empty lanes" if it HAS something in the lane, it is not emty. If I am recording a vocal phrase, I would record it several times and then audition each, to see which better suits the composition... in this scenario it just creates havoc.
    #8
    bluebeat1313
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 122
    • Joined: 2017/11/11 12:40:16
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/11 20:13:18 (permalink)
    I guess nobody knows if the wonderful new feature can be turned off. Another question please. Is there a way to downgrade? To get the version that I had prior to this extra smart feature update that thinks it knows where you want to record new take?
    #9
    Sylvan
    Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 793
    • Joined: 2005/04/14 14:51:02
    • Location: San Diego, CA-USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/11 21:00:07 (permalink)
    No, you cannot turn that wonderful, most welcomed feature off. If you want to "downgrade" as you say, open your Command Center, "Right-click" on SONAR and "roll back" to whatever version you like.
     
    However, I would strongly encourage you to keep an open mind on your workflow. With a slight adjustment to your method, you could see the massive benefits that this much more logical, cleaner approach is granting us SONAR users. Perhaps you could be even more efficient if you tried some different things using this streamlined method and might even think "why did I do it this way for so long."
     
    Just trying to be helpful. There has to be some reason that this feature was implemented and some reason why I and many others welcomed it with open arms (and open minds.) I could never do multiple takes the old way after experiencing that massive improvement the current method affords.
     
    Hope you find the benefits that many others have. Let us know... 

    SONAR Platinum
    RME Fireface UFX
    Tascam US 20X20
    Tascam US 16X08
    Intel i7-5830K LGA2011V3 (6 CORE)
    Asus X99-AII
    Corsair Vengeance DDR4 32GB
    Geeforce GTX 970 4GB
    #10
    bluebeat1313
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 122
    • Joined: 2017/11/11 12:40:16
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/11 23:17:02 (permalink)
    Sylvan, thank you for downgrade advice and for encouragement. Yes, I will try to make use of this feature with open heart and mind as you suggested :)
     
    I am just pissed that it is not even an option anymore.  Sometimes I might have 80+ takes in 20 seconds of song... I do not want to have 80 separate tracks for that :) I guess the easiest approach would be to "add new take" manually every time and arm that specific take. This new feature makes this complicated by adding a few hundred extra mouse clicks per song. My tablet does not have physical keyboard and they (Sonar team) specifically advertised this as "TOUCH FRIENDLY" product, that was the main reason why I bought it. This automation of adding takes automatically was very useful for tablets when tracking. At least they could of left the option to have it manually switchable the other way.
     
    I used Cakewalk products for many years, but for basic stuff. I remember few years back I ran into complication, I called, they answered and resolved. Now there is no phone#...  A week ago I received email reply answer from customer support at Sonar that I sent in March. I am not kidding. It took them 7 (seven!) MONTH to reply. I think that is the longest I ever waited for a question to be answered. I will keep this email, and maybe one day print it out and send to CEO of customer relations at Gibson or Roland or whoever owns Sonar now for Christmas. Sure it will make a great fridge magnet decal :)
     
    But on the other hand, I am glad that this community is alive and helpful. 
     
    Thank you!!!
     
    #11
    jpetersen
    Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1499
    • Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/11 23:38:20 (permalink)
    I'm not clear what is happening.
    Is the muted recorded material wiped out and being overwritten with the new audio?
    #12
    bluebeat1313
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 122
    • Joined: 2017/11/11 12:40:16
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/12 00:00:47 (permalink)
    Not sure... I am using "sound on sound" mode and when recording many takes, some of them get recorded to previously muted tracks. I can unmute them of course, but when working with many takes, it complicates things greatly because of the material that is written in different places of one take lane.
    #13
    jpetersen
    Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1499
    • Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/12 11:22:44 (permalink)
    It should be immediately obvious if the audio of a previously recorded lane has been deleted and replaced.
    In what way are you not sure?
    #14
    bluebeat1313
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 122
    • Joined: 2017/11/11 12:40:16
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/12 12:47:11 (permalink)
    Jpeterson, not sure if you are asking a question or trying to answer mine. I believe it got off topic. Topic was: automatically creating new take lanes when record / stop button is pressed. Seems people here did not like that option and welcomed a new version of tracking... I believe I see the reason why some welcomed new feature. But my goals are a bit different.
    #15
    PeteL
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 168
    • Joined: 2013/12/15 18:56:58
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/12 14:27:53 (permalink)
    bluebeat1313
    Not sure... I am using "sound on sound" mode and when recording many takes, some of them get recorded to previously muted tracks. I can unmute them of course, but when working with many takes, it complicates things greatly because of the material that is written in different places of one take lane.


    Sound on Sound? Isn't it Comping record mode that accomplishes what you want? Sound on Sound will indeed place new clips over old ones.
    #16
    bluebeat1313
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 122
    • Joined: 2017/11/11 12:40:16
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/12 16:05:30 (permalink)
     "Sound on Sound will indeed place new clips over old ones." Yes and no. They will be recorded (was like that..) on SEPARATE take tracks every time stop/record button was pressed. So you can either play/sing along with that lane, mute it, use part of it of many other neat things on the fly. "Sound on Sound" is what I need/interested in in this topic, I know there are other modes, but I have no interest in them.
    As of right now with "magical" update it can take newly recorded clip and place it in previously "MUTED" take track, just because it has space, not because I want it there.
     
    The only solution I found was manually creating a "new take lane" and arm it (that specific take lane) 
    Again, I am familiar with workarounds, but that is not something I want.
     
    If there is no solution except for what I described  (creating a "new take lane" and arm that specific take lane) or downgrading to the point when this was by default. 
    Maybe some Pros here will tell me if creating of automation is possible.... Meaning making a specific command button that by pressing it creates new take lane and arms it, in one mouse click.
     
    When working on track, sometimes I do over 100 takes, it would save a lot of "mousing" around time :)
     
    Thanks.
    #17
    chuckebaby
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13146
    • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/12 17:22:08 (permalink)
     
     

    If you enable a track’s Expand/collapse Take Lanes button, SONAR moves the track’s clips to separate lanes whenever any of the following happens:

    -You use loop recording in Comping or Sound on Sound mode, and choose to store takes in a single track.
    -You record over some pre-existing data while in Sound on Sound mode.
    -The track contains at least one overlapping clip


     
     

    Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
    Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
    Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
       
    #18
    bluebeat1313
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 122
    • Joined: 2017/11/11 12:40:16
    • Status: offline
    Re: Sonar track Take lanes and clips.... Please help. 2017/11/12 18:08:46 (permalink)
    , I do understand the newly implemented logic. 
    But that logic does not suit my needs. They should have at least kept it as an option.
     
    I think it is understandable why somebody would want ONE clip in ONE take lane without any other bells and whistles like automatic clip placements in random places or recording into muted take lanes, besides me. Features are good when they are features...not dictated in such manner.
     
    My quest in downgrading was not successful as probably I had original version initially (early 2016) on PC prior to upgrading. Should not have upgraded. At least it would last for few years as it was... Hopefully,  people at Sonar will give me the original version that I bought.  
    #19
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1