I payed for 2/2018 to 2/2019 two weeks ago, so I payed for nothing:(

Firstly I reckon you’d have to come up with proof that it was a scam as you call it. I’m not sure there was any scam involved at all.
I don’t believe the guys at Cakewalk knew what was happening until they were notified which I imagine was just before we were told.
The lifetime updates were no doubt a way to raise money fast but that isn’t a scam that’s just a way to increase your cash flow.
I don’t think that Cakewalk could Control the degree of financial problems that their owners, Gibson were going to be in thus triggering this whole collapse.

This scenario has not been brought about by Cakewalk’s financial situation, rather Gibson’s insolvency and ongoing debt problems.

Sorry - I just don’t like using words like Scam and associating that with Cakewalk. I’ve known many of the guys there for a long time and can’t imagine them being involved in a scam.

Basseman
HI:)
 
2 weeks ago I renewed my one year updates, so for now the money is gone for nothing:(
 
Thank you Gibson!
 
That's hard, but I'm trying to get it back!
 
Bassman.

Keith Albright seems to be the only Baker left online. It might be worth sending him a PM wit( your issue.

About my lifetime membership, I have just responded to a Cakewalk offer which told me something like "don't wait to extend your subscription, do it now and it will be active without any time limit, and this offer will be over soon". It's right that I was free to accept or not. At the time I believed that it was a trustful company, which wanted to build a solid customer base again.
 
I don't know US law but in France, if a firm decides to stop its activity, it must refund the customers for the subscription, UNLESS in case of bankruptcy. Maybe it's different in your system. In that particular case, I prefer the French law, it's more honest.

ebibault51
I don't know US law but in France, if a firm decides to stop its activity, it must refund the customers for the subscription, UNLESS in case of bankruptcy. Maybe it's different in your system. In that particular case, I prefer the French law, it's more honest.

I have separated your case from Basseman for the following reason: you had membership with some fixed date up to 15.11.17. And till that time, there was update. You also have "lifetime", but in the license nor is sales there was any dates. 1 second... 1 minute... 1 day... 1 year... 1 century. No, just "lifetime" (of the product, that is the only official meaning, your your lifetime). And that was not called "subscription". So for that situation I do not think you have any chance to use any law. Strictly speaking, 2 days is also a valid lifetime.
 
For Basseman the situation is different, he has payed for service which starts and ends in the future, with particular dates. And there is official declaration there will be no service during that period. But that is also not completely so, just the "service" is going to be on different level (but that was never fixed in the agreement):
 
I think in France or in US, most probably Gibson layers have advised to keep a team of 1-2 persons which can be called "Sonar team" for the next year (so for the period some people have payed membership). That is sufficient to avoid problem with the law, formally there will be some "team" with some "service". They will be unable to do anything good, but the funny part - that was never promised! 
 
The more I think and read about the topic, the more I think all that was planed:
1) new plug-ins (independent parallel development) and small interface changes, no real "big movement" in the DAW. I mean all changes was "cheap and fast" to do.
2) changing to "membership" model, so asking to PAY IN ADVANCE. With the first version as a "gift" (2 years development for 1 year price! with "Coming soon", so people could see whats coming) to make people jump in.
3) dropping phone support (costs)
4) "lifetime update" (which not drunk manager can do this? in case the end is not yet known...)
5) no more "coming soon"... so NO promise to do anything (which could be used in legal accusations)
6) new price politic, with hi prices (collect even more money, with absolutely no new promises)
7) BUM
8) closing the shop...
9) ... future ... keeping 1-2 persons team for a year, to imitate "transition period"
10) ... future ... sell it to someone else ...
 
Starting from (2) up up to (5), I was breaking my head in attempt to understand how all that is going to work. But putting all that together, that make PERFECT SENSE as a business plan which can work.
 

Hi:)
 
I'm not angry with the Bakers, they have all done very well over the years!!!
 
Great Software, great Forum, I'll stay with it!!
 
Bassman.

EU has better consumer protection laws, so anyone in EU recently buying 12 months worth will be able to get it back; in the US i'm not so sure (do you even have any consumer protection laws in the US??) so your best bet is via your payment method, paypal or cc, rather than via the (re-)seller
good luck!

ebibault51
azslow3, I agree to your analysis about the plan... But we cannot prove it.

I work in science since previous century... Not every theory has a prove when released. (Sometime rather big...) experiments are build for the prove. What is less known is that most experiments "un-prove", "Close" the theories. Confirmations ("Openings") are rare.
But a theory is broadly accepted as possible only in case it make sense. I mean before any prove.
 
My problem is that every published intention as an explanation for very strange change in Cakewalk was not sounding convincing. At least not for me. I repeat a part of the list:
* "membership". 2 Years development for the price on one. In addition AD2 pack, retail nominated as that price alone. Country specific prices, sometime questionably hi, sometimes questionably low (take into account, that AD2 pack and 3d party licenses had no and have no differentiations, I mean it is unlikely the fee CW had to pay was differentiated). Gift?
* "improvement in support". Practically cancellation of support. "Transition", "new team training", "extreme number of users".
* "monthly updates". Optimizing work of small team? How a small team can develop something serious (we was told all changes was to make CW working better...), when they have to release something every month?
* "lifetime membership". For the top version. Gift?
 
So, when put in chronological list until now, all that make marketing sense. But otherwise it does not. At all. Not in marketing, not in logic.
 
I would like to see any other theory. But as I have written in another thread, it should also have at least some sense. At least in something.
 

Imagine another example: imagine a network of fitness clubs in a country, say France. One day the Marseilles club tells you : "pay for 2 years now, and this is lifetime!". After one year, the Paris headquarters say : we close the Marseilles club but keep the rest of the clubs. And we keep the money from Marseilles people. In this case, the firm would be prosecuted for misleading offer.

Most people have paid for Lifetime in 2016 the usual price of update for one (!) year. So for 2017. That was delivered.
You had a ticket for one year in Marseilles club. You have asked, "can I buy a ticket for the next year now?" and they have answered "yes, you can...". In one month after that, there was an offer "lifetime ticket" and you took it as well. In one and half year the club is closed. I guess even in France courthouse the first question you will be asked "when taking lifetime ticket, have you tried to cancel the ticket for the next year, since it was clearly superseded by the lifetime?"
So, have you mailed CW last august that you have paid for 2017 already, before taking lifetime? What was the answer? CW was alway kind in that respect, to all customers. I will be surprised in case you have asked but have received no offer...
 

SiberianKhatru59
The SCAM mention herein lies solely with Gibson (who in turn SCAMMED even Cakewalk and their employees) who allowed and indeed advertised the sale of products up to the day before shutting everything down.

Your proposal will be to close the shop 31 December last year, without any explanation or the explanation "we will continue our development till November, but since then it will be stopped we no longer sell anything?". I do not remember I have ever seen such marketing scenario, CW was "creative" in marketing last years, but no so creative
 

azslow3

SiberianKhatru59
The SCAM mention herein lies solely with Gibson (who in turn SCAMMED even Cakewalk and their employees) who allowed and indeed advertised the sale of products up to the day before shutting everything down.

Your proposal will be to close the shop 31 December last year, without any explanation or the explanation "we will continue our development till November, but since then it will be stopped we no longer sell anything?". I do not remember I have ever seen such marketing scenario, CW was "creative" in marketing last years, but no so creative
 

You left his off the end of my quoted words above:

Now I don't know how anyone else defines the word SCAM, but in my mind this is a textbook example of one UNLESS people are treated fairly and can recoup their bilked money OR be able to get what they paid for to the letter of the promises made to them -- namely you pay in full and it's yours to keep and use FOREVER.

In other words, so long as Gibson makes things right with all their customers to the extent that is possible, I'm fine with things.

For my own case, it was a Cakewalk proposition (by e-mail ; after that I NEVER received the newsletter again, although the item was checked in my account).
I found this proposition strange (how would they do to earn something in the future if anyone bought a lifetime update?), but one of the "bakers" said here that the business plan was OK, because they thought that it would create a solid community that would buy add-ons (plugins...). So I was a little bit worried for Cakewalk and for my money too... but I paid.
I clearly understood that I would pay something like 2 years in advance, and that was not a problem. Because they convinced me that the software would exist much longer. So the offer seemed to be fair, it's the way it ended up that is not.
Today I feel disappointed because I love this software line, it helped me to become a musician. And the community is nice.
 
And what do you think about that :
I have lost 115 euros in the lifetime updates. BUT if Cakewalk/Gibson had said instead at the time of the lifetime updates:
"We have some financial problems. Help us and take shares" or "let's do a crowdfunding operation to help us build the future of SONAR".
I would have paid 115 euros or more with a lot of pleasure!