New User Having trouble recording MIDI

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MerlinSuderman
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2018/01/04 18:26:44 (permalink)

New User Having trouble recording MIDI

Still learning basics.  I can bring in a MIDI file from another source, apply TTS-1 and handle instrument assignments, channel assignments, etc and get some decent backing tracks that way, but I do some writing, arranging, and composing.

I set up a New project, Insert a MIDI track, Insert TTS-1, assign a MIDI channel to the track, set the Input to my digital keyboard, set the output to TTS-1, assign a Patch, arm the track to record (red button in Track view), then I either push the record button in the control panel or press the "R" key on the computer keyboard.  The metronome sounds and I play the part I'm trying to record.  Nothing records.

The Cakewalk tutorial and documentation says I should check Edit->Preferences for my Midi settings.  Input is set to the digital keyboard.  I've opened other recording software and verified that recording the digital keyboard to a MIDI file on the computer works.  The keyboard, cabling, and computer work fine recording in other software.
 
I'm not good at handling this level of frustration.

I appreciate answers at basic levels.  Imagine you're helping someone so bad at using Sonar that I've spent over a year with it (50 to 60 hours is my estimate of the time I've spent on it) and still can't record a MIDI file.  I appear to be intelligent enough to record MIDI in other software, but I've got Sonar and would like to use it.
 
Thanks in advance for helping me find the simple thing I must be missing.  It just can't be as hard to use as what I'm experiencing.
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    tlw
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/04 20:18:00 (permalink)
    Recording MIDI and using software synths in Sonar is very similar to how most DAWs do it. From what you say it sounds line you have a routing issue either with the MIDI or the audio,

    When you play the keyboard is there any sound from TTS-1?

    Does the MIDI track meter show anything happening when you play the keyboard? It should indicate the velocity of the incoming notes and a red light should indicate when a note is being played.

    I suggest that inserting a fresh copy of TTS-1 and selecting the options for seperate audio and MIDI tracks might also be a good idea when troubleshooting to make sure that the MIDI track is correctly routed to the audio track containing TTS-1 and it’s output points to TTS-1.

    If the track meters are showing activity but there’s no sound check the track’s MIDI channel is set to a channel TTS-1 uses, If I remember correctly, the default is that channel 1 is “piano”, so try that. Don’t forget to make sure the “piano” sound is turned up in TTS-1’s mixer.

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    #2
    abacab
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/04 20:54:56 (permalink)
    Tutorial 4 - Playing and recording software instruments
    http://www.cakewalk.com/D...;help=Tutorial4.1.html

    DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
    #3
    Cactus Music
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/04 21:11:03 (permalink)
    The basics
    Check in preferences that your midi input is checked for your keyboard controller. Don't forget to APPLY. 
    Insert a Midi track.
    Select the keyboard controller and OMNI as input. 
    Insert a VST instrument- to test use one that can be PLAYED in the GUI like SI bass or a Drum kit. 
    Make sure there is sound from the VST instrument first using the GUI interface.  
    Set output of midi track to the VST instrument. You can also set channels, banks and patch but most you do this in the GUI so it's not always needed. TTS-1 can also be set from the GUI
    To record make sure the input echo is on for the midi track and activate RECORD. 
    Hit the R key to start recording. 
     

    Johnny V  
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    #4
    michael diemer
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/04 21:39:10 (permalink)
    There are two record buttons, one next to the other. One is to arm, the other to record. Just in case you missed that, though it doesn't sound like you did.

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    #5
    MerlinSuderman
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/04 23:30:11 (permalink)
    Here's how I've got my settings:

     

     

     
    Q:  When you play the keyboard is there any sound from TTS-1?
    A:  No.
     
    Q: Does the MIDI track meter show anything happening when you play the keyboard?
    A:  No.  There is no indication that anything is happening.  If the track is armed but not recording, I think I should hear something through the TTS and I should see meters move, but there is nothing.
     
    To simplify, I tried to record without TTS, using my digital keyboard as both input and output.  Nothing.  To check hardware, I fired up a 1990's era copy of Cakewalk.  record and playback works perfectly, so it's something in Sonar that's causing the problem.
     
    I did find some test recordings I did a couple months ago that did not use TTS.  They worked, but recording a second track was impossible.  It worked at one time, but that was using Microsoft's default synth.
     
    #6
    Cactus Music
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/04 23:36:42 (permalink)
    Did you follow my instructions? Your pictures do not show here.  I think you need a post count of over 25 first. 
     
    You need to follow my instructions as that will work unless something is broken which I doubt. 
    Sounds to me like you have not set the input correctly. 

    Johnny V  
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    #7
    MerlinSuderman
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/05 01:32:16 (permalink)
    Re:  Cactus Music
     
    Check in preferences that your midi input is checked for your keyboard controller. Don't forget to APPLY.   - Done and done

    Insert a Midi track. - Done

    Select the keyboard controller and OMNI as input. - Done

    Insert a VST instrument- to test use one that can be PLAYED in the GUI like SI bass or a Drum kit. - Huh?  I can assign a TTS patch number to my MIDI track.  Is that what you mean?  My MIDI track is set to Channel 1, with patch 32 (Acoustic Bass).  I don't see where this is much of a factor, since nothing is getting recorded.  I've got no indicators showing receipt of MIDI input.  What is "Insert Instrument"?  Is that something maybe used with Rapture where tracks are assigned to instruments, where TTS uses a General Midi format with patch numbers.

    Make sure there is sound from the VST instrument first using the GUI interface. - I have no idea what you are trying to get me to do or how to do it.  Is there a way to set up the TTS with a patch and then test the sound through the GUI?  that would be helpful since there are lots of sounds to audition to find something useful
      
    Set output of midi track to the VST instrument. You can also set channels, banks and patch but most you do this in the GUI so it's not always needed. TTS-1 can also be set from the GUI - All this is done.  I did it though selecting the track and then in the left panel there's  a vertical display that has all those parameters.
     
    To record make sure the input echo is on for the midi track and activate RECORD. 
    Hit the R key to start recording.  - I think I turned the input echo off.  I'm not at my recording computer right now.  I will check that again.  I believe I checked all those parameters and tried it with the echo set both on and off, but I will double check that.  I have used both the "R" key and the Recod button
     
    I'm about to think in terms of uninstalling and reinstalling.  When I recorded some test tracks before I was using the soft synths, I wasn't having these problems.  Now I can't duplicate recording that way.
     
    I just want to do some simple things like this where I recorded a practice session over a backing track to get to a bass player. 
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfBpevYl5Ec
    #8
    Cactus Music
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/05 03:13:06 (permalink)
    OK good progress we can rule out a lot of things that needed to be set up as DONE.
    Most VST synths have a graphic of what they are. The SI Bass as example has a bass and you can play it with your mouse. AD2 or SI Drums have a drum kit you can play with the mouse. TTS-1 has little preview buttons , read the instructions to see where they are but from memory they are below the volume fadder. You click on them and it plays a short sample that fits the part. 
    The reason I'm asking you to do this is that will conferm the VST is outputiing properly. 
    If you don't hear anything then the issue is your VST is not set to output to your Master buss and onward to your audio interface. 
    And input echo for sure needs to be on so you can hear what your playing, it might be as simple as that. 
     
    You should try other VST's as the TTS-1 is the lowest quality of what Sonar has to offer. 
    I use the TTS-1 just to see what a downloaded file sounds like then if I like the file I change all the instruments track by track. 
    MY Standard band is 
    Dim Pro Full accoustic Bass
    AD2 a custom kit I built
    True Pianos or Airs Mini Grand
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    Then Dim Pro or Air Xpand for horns, flutes, accordion and whatnot. 
     
    And as I said most of these synths you set the patches within the GUI using the drop down menu.  Most I tweek the sounds and save as my own custom pre sets. 
     
    When I say insert a VST that is how you put synths in the synth rack, You select them in the browser on the right, look for the Instrument icon, when you select one it will open a dialog and you can choose different option for how the VST synth is inserted in your project. 
     


    Johnny V  
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    #9
    Cactus Music
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/05 03:35:06 (permalink)


    Johnny V  
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    #10
    tlw
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/05 16:44:18 (permalink)
    MerlinSuderman
    Insert a VST instrument- to test use one that can be PLAYED in the GUI like SI bass or a Drum kit. - Huh?  I can assign a TTS patch number to my MIDI track.  Is that what you mean?  My MIDI track is set to Channel 1, with patch 32 (Acoustic Bass).  I don't see where this is much of a factor, since nothing is getting recorded.


    The way TTS-1 decides which MIDI instructions to apply to each of the instruments it emulates is by MIDI channel, and follows the General MIDI (GM) guidelines. GM was created so that games designers, for example, could use MIDI to play anu music in their games and be reasonably sure it would sound similar on all systems. Or at least that the bass MIDI wouldn’t end up playing a flute.

    By default, GM sets channel 1 to control the “piano” sound. Try setting the patch to be “piano” and see if that works.

    Synths that can output multiple voices (usually referred to as “multi-timbral”) generally accept input from several MIDI channels then split the channels so each controls a single voice. This can actually make them more complicated to use because you have to make sure that the MIDI channel you use corresponds to the voice/sound you want.

    I strongly suggest you work through the tutorial on playing software synths.

    I seriously doubt you need to reinstall anything. It sounds to me like either your MIDI routing is set incorrectly or your audio routing is - or both.

    Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board,
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    #11
    MerlinSuderman
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/05 18:05:11 (permalink)
    This is definitely not an issue with TTS.  TTS auditions properly.  The problem popped up after I started working with VST's, but I've isolated them from the layout and still no recording.  I have attempted recording with the digital keyboard as the only input/output device.  I've tried recording with the keyboard as input and the Microsoft default midi (GS or whatever that's called) and still no recording.

    In the track views when I go to playback, there is supposed to be a graphic representatio n of the recording.  There is nothing.  Sonar is simply not recording anything under any possible scenario for recording.

    I will be occupied until tonight, so I won't have a chance to test any suggestions for at least 6 PM Central USA time.

    I am reinstalling everything, although I have not uninstalled anything yet.
    #12
    57Gregy
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    Re: New User Having trouble recording MIDI 2018/01/05 18:12:36 (permalink)
    I have had this happen before. 
    I changed tracks and it recorded on the new track and was able to subsequently record on the previously unrecordable track.
    No idea why it happened.
    About a decade ago.

    Greg 
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